The Sunday Outlook section of today’s Washington Post has an article on Martin Luther King’s “Letter From A Birmingham Jail” by W. Ralph Eubanks, author of Ever Is a Long Time: A Journey Into Mississippi’s Dark Past.
It’s a good article, and I agree with the author’s insistence that King’s Birmingham letter should be remembered along with his more famous “I Have A Dream” speech. I do, however, have a problem with the following paragraph, whose sentiment may at first seem so commonplace as to be unexceptionable:
Times have changed, but many of the issues King tackled still play a role in our daily lives. Racism has not been eradicated from American culture today. It lingers in the shadows rather than showing its face in the light of day as it did on the streets of Birmingham in 1963. It has also morphed into issues of class and ethnicity as well as race. These are all issues young people need to discuss openly today, because they will be facing them throughout adulthood.
Before we so routinely and automatically nod our heads at this assertion, let’s ask a question or two. Surely Dr. King wouldn’t mind.
First, where does racism still reside in “American culture”? No doubt some individual racists remain, but does “American culture” still harbor racism? Where are those “shadows” in the culture where it still lives? Those who believe so ought to point it out.
But if racism has “morphed into issues of class and ethnicity,” doesn’t that imply that it’s not racism any more but something else? Morph, after all, means something like transform. Can something remain the same and “also morph”?
Morphed or not, are the issues of “class and ethnicity” really so similar to the racial discrimination that Dr.King fought? To argue, as I would, that they are not is not to say they are not important, or even that Dr. King was not concerned about them, or that we shouldn’t discuss them with young people. What I would suggest, however, is a bit of caution before attempting to surround all of today’s liberal causes with the moral authority of Martin Luther King.
Segregation was evil — in large part because it was an excrescence from racial discrimination — but it does not necessarily follow that tax policy should be more redistributionist, that bilingual education programs should be expanded, or that racial preferences should be continued (even if MLK would have supported them).
“First, where does racism still reside in “American culture?”
It’s all over. Racism in the form of affirmative action and race-baiting is everyday reality.
John writes:
>>>First, where does racism still reside in “American culture”? No doubt some individual racists remain, but does “American culture” still harbor racism? Where are those “shadows” in the culture where it still lives? Those who believe so ought to point it out.”
Dr. Helan Enoch Page has a multi-principled definition of “racism” at the Center for the Study of White American Culture.
http://www.euroamerican.org/library/Racismdf.asp
Principle I. Racism is an ideological, structural and historic stratification process by which the population of European descent, through its individual and institutional distress patterns, intentionally has been able to sustain, to its own best advantage, the dynamic mechanics of upward or downward mobility (of fluid status assignment) to the general disadvantage of the population designated as non-white (on a global scale), using skin color, gender, class, ethnicity or nonwestern nationality as the main indexical criteria used for enforcing differential resource allocation decisions that contribute to decisive changes in relative racial standing in ways most favoring the populations designated as ‘white.’
And I’ll skip to principle 5
Princple V. Collectively, the ‘white’ and/or ‘whitened’ members of this racially privileged global population tend to bolster their shared political intent to impose patterns of restricted resource access on racially subordinant populations, and aim to preserve their presumably non-negotiable right to prescribe, and even dictate, lessor resource access rights for certain upwardly mobile members of the ‘non-white’ population whose internalized racism, reliable complicity, and carefully scrutinized willingness to cooperate with racial dominates is always required and rewarded.”
By this definition John, one akin to those I’ve repeatedly suggested on this blog, we see the master plan revealed. The destruction of ACCESS to upward mobility would occur with the destruction of Affirmative Action, UNLESS, as the good doctor describes, “complicity through cooperation by “upwardly mobile members of the non-white population with internalized racism” gets sanctioned. I can’t even fathom a more clear definition of Ward Connerly and his various white male advocacy campaigns. Who ultimately benefits from the destruction of Affirmative Action? Do you deny that white men stand to gain the most when their competition from non-whites and white women are diminished? Do you deny that a return to the system prior to Affirmative Action would be a boon to maintaining the racial hiearchy that undeniably exists in this nation?
The Center for the Study of White American Culture goes on to clarify their positions.
>>>United States society suffers from pandemic racism, racial inequality and racial conflict. Thirty years ago the Kerner commission identified racism as a “white problem.” Twenty years before that, Gunnar Myrdal said exactly the same in his landmark sociological study, An American Dilemma. Yet a recent survey of research articles conducted by the Center for the Study of White American Culture looked at articles published between 1963 and 1993 on racial identity, awareness, consciousness and experience. Fewer than 7% of the articles focused on white people. The discrepancy reveals an imbalance in focus, especially since the major portion of the articles were authored by white Americans, and in 1990 white Americans comprised 75% of population of the United States.
People of color understand there is a gap. In the 1994 documentary, The Color of Fear, featuring a frank discussion between nine men of diverse racial backgrounds, Victor, an African American, emphatically tells David, a white American, that white people do not talk about themselves as white people. He says, “What I want to know is what it means to be white. What is the experience? You
I disagree; I think it is also overt. For example, many a time have I been told that I can’t comment on a particular issue because I’m a “rich, white, Christian male.” Funny, because I’m not exactly all of those things. But hey, apparently by just looking at someone you can figure them out.
Also, some notes to our “friend” Cobra:
1) Please cite specific contemporary examples where “skin color, gender, class, ethnicity or nonwestern nationality” has acted “as THE MAIN INDEXICAL CRITERIA used for enforcing differential resource allocation decisions that contribute to decisive changes in relative racial standing in ways most favoring the populations designated as ‘white.'” Are you and/or this questionable organization insinuating that free market policies are racist?
2) Is it your position that any black person that has succeeded has done so through “complicity through cooperation?”
3) I for one do not deny that an end to affirmative action would benefit whites (and asians too, but hell, you gotta keep that hierarchy thesis concrete, now don’t you?) That you claim that affirmative action increases competition is I suppose technically true but a serious affront to the American understanding of competition.
Cobra, you never consistently address the moral qualms presented by Affirmative Action, the idea of colorblindness, or make any attempts to refute the claims of John or others except but to claim a vast white-wing conspiracy to control other races.
Wow. So crazy.
‘Morphed or not, are the issues of “class and ethnicity” really so similar to the racial discrimination that Dr.King fought?’
Dr. King fought for class issues too. When he was killed he was working with a sanitation union.
Cobra – My memory’s not what it used to be, but be that as it may I really can’t recall ever reading/hearing so much nonsense. I don’t know whether Dr. Helan Enoch Page actually exists or not, but if she doesn’t the Right should hasten to invent her. Rather than bolster your arguments, she makes them look ridiculous.
Checking out the URL you provided, I see that her Definition of Racism in Five Principles is actually preceded by a definition: “Racism is a global system of material and symbolic resource distribution management….”
Sounds like the waste product from a jargon factory, as indeed do the Five Principles.
Believe me, no one will take you seriously if you keep spouting this stuff.
Me:
‘Morphed or not, are the issues of “class and ethnicity” really so similar to the racial discrimination that Dr.King fought?’
actus:
Dr. King fought for class issues too. When he was killed he was working with a sanitation union.
Yes, and your point is? The fact that a) King fought against racial discrimination and b) also fought to help poor people does not mean
1. That the issue of race has “morphed” into a class issue;
2. That because King was right on race he was necessarily right on class; or
3. That anyone should support, or oppose, any issue today because of the position King may have taken on it were he still alive.
I don’t think it means things morph into another, just that liberation and justice mean more than color. Maybe King saw the two as connected. Maybe he was just into justice.
It means that if we want to live by King’s legacy we should know what that means: class and race struggle for freedom.
I can’t help it if it means that it excludes defenders of classism from MLK’s legacy.
Compare the convoluted rhetoric in the passage Cobra quotes with this:
“…when you suddenly find your tongue twisted and your speech stammering as you seek to explain to your six- year-old daughter why she can’t go to the public amusement park that has just been advertised on television, and see tears welling up in her eyes when she is told that Funtown is closed to colored children….”
from Letter from a Birmingham Jail
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/African_Studies/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html
King didn’t have to use bloviating rhetoric or statistics to talk about the racism he faced. To suggest that things haven’t changed or aren’t any better is to deny that black people ever faced such overt racism.
“…the waste product from a jargon factory…” I don’t know if you conjured that line yourself, but it’s hilarious and accurate.
As one who still peeks in the comment section periodically, I continue to marvel at the fact that there remains an (apparently insatiable) appetite for debate with Cobra. It’s as if some commenters believe that this narcissistic cuckoo-bird is going to one day sing a different tune. As if some combination of logic, insults, or conciliatory gestures will convince this broken-record to skip right over its only line. Any person who follows the commentary here with only the mildest interest could write Cobra’s next 47 posts in their sleep–needing only his faithful link-list of “evil whitey” articles.
Yet I suppose that perseverance is a virtue. And by that measure alone, this site boasts several candidates for canonization.
I’m always glad when white guys win, because I am one, Cobra. I’m always happy when I win. Where in the hell do you get the notion that white guys ought to feel otherwise? Why should they be any better than you? You’re a black guy, and you root for black guys to always win. I keep telling you, and you always fail to respond, that your “idealist” political view always end up with you getting. Convenient, huh?
I don’t care about your concepts of racial justice. You are fabricating when you say that this is what interests you. Getting over is what interests you.
I continue to marvel at the fact that there remains an (apparently insatiable) appetite for debate with Cobra.
I gave up some time ago. But it is somewhat cathartic to watch him get continually humilated around here.
Wait — is that racist?
My, my, my. Where do we start with this selection of responses? Let’s start with John.
John writes:
>>>Believe me, no one will take you seriously if you keep spouting this stuff.”
John, I’m an African American poster who takes a position that doesn’t deify white males. I highly doubt most posters to this blog take me seriously anyway. But you asked a question in your opening to this thread about the existance of racism in the American Culture. I provided a definition by Dr. Helan Enoch Page. The bibliography reads as follows:
“[This is an updated and extended 1999 version of a detailed definition of racism developed by Dr. Helan Enoch Page (Associate Professor, Anthropology Department, UMASS-Amherst) and distributed at the American Anthropological Association in 1993. This short manuscript has been cited in several publications including books, dissertations and will be cited soon in a forthcoming book by Pem Buck (1999 or 2000), called: “Work Your Fingers to the Bone: An Anthropological History of Whiteness and the Elite in Kentucky”: Temple University Press. Anyone is free to use this definition as long as Dr. Page is credited for its development and for its influence on any analyses or practical program stemming from its use].”
I think her reasoning is sound, John. Read the principles again to yourself and look at the history of European colonization, especially in the Western Hemisphere…the GENOCIDAL SLAUGHTER of indigenous natives, and the ethnic clensing, the enslavement of Africans, indentured servitude of Asians, for profit. The existence of concepts such as manifest destiny, and white man’s burden. Dr. Page didn’t make this stuff up. But you are a smart man, John. You don’t need ME to give you history lesson on the ATTROCITIES of the white man in the Western Hemisphere, do you? You don’t need me to walk you through American history, and the prevaling discrimination that existed throughout, do you? Of course not. I’ve already posted those accounts ad infinitum before. I’ve already posted GOVERNMENT REPORTS on discrimination going on RIGHT NOW against minorities, but it doesn’t matter to you or any other posters here, apparently.
So I’m just going to ask you again, as well as any other poster with the intestinal fortitude to answer.
Could it be John, that our diametrically opposed positions on Affirmative Action may rise from our divergent internal racial consciousness? How much does your own whiteness and my non-whiteness impact on our perspectives?
Stephen, of ALL PEOPLE, at least has the STONES to admit the REAL REASON WHY he’s against Affirmative Action. He feels it doesn’t benefit him as a white man.
I don’t think you’re anywhere as simple a man as Stephen portrays himself to be, John, if that’s any consolation to you.
–Cobra
Finally, Cobra, you got it.
I don’t owe you a thing. When I watch the ball game, I cheer for the white guys, because this does wonders for my self esteem, and I need it. I come from a disadvantaged background and I need all the positive role models I can find. You seem to think I ought to be ashamed of this. OK. Then you ought to be ashamed of always cheering for the black guys. You keep trying to have it both ways. You have an infinite double standard.
You still, however, have not really faced the reality of this.
I am against anything that gives you any advantage over me. This seems to constantly amaze you. Why should I think otherwise? God appointed you the eternal recipient of grace? Who said?
‘I come from a disadvantaged background and I need all the positive role models I can find.’
Isn’t dubya enough?
Laura writes:
>>>King didn’t have to use bloviating rhetoric or statistics to talk about the racism he faced. To suggest that things haven’t changed or aren’t any better is to deny that black people ever faced such overt racism”
Laura, who put MLK in that Birmingham prison, and for what reason? Why don’t you also answer for me who wire tapped King, beat and imprisoned his followers, and ultimately MURDERED him?
Actus,
As you can see, this is a hostile crowd for non-believers like myself, but it doesn’t deter me.
Dave Huber writes:
>>>I gave up some time ago. But it is somewhat cathartic to watch him get continually humilated around here.”
Come on, Davey. You must still be sore I ruined your little “blacks dominate all sports” theory a few months back. I have my viewpoints, and I back them up. And the fun part is, I always have people like my friend Stephen around to VINDICATE my posts.
StuarT writes:
>>>As one who still peeks in the comment section periodically, I continue to marvel at the fact that there remains an (apparently insatiable) appetite for debate with Cobra. It’s as if some commenters believe that this narcissistic cuckoo-bird is going to one day sing a different tune. As if some combination of logic, insults, or conciliatory gestures will convince this broken-record to skip right over its only line.”
“Narcissistic cuckoo-bird?” That’s a new one. Yeah, I will be the first to admit I love seeing my work in print. But you know what, StuarT? Come up with better arguments. I concede points that are factually correct.
I have history, statistics, government reports, and irrefutable facts on my side.
What do you folks have again, besides…
–Cobra
Cobra, what the heck are you talking about? That’s the biggest non-sequitur I’ve seen in a long time.
Laura,
You quoted King’s letter from the Birmingham prison, right? It would help to know the context, right?
–Cobra
Extra Credit Assignment: Great Reading…
These posts are from a variety of authors, written in very different styles; all make…
Cobra says,
“By this definition John, one akin to those I’ve repeatedly suggested on this blog, we see the master plan revealed. The destruction of ACCESS to upward mobility would occur with the destruction of Affirmative Action, UNLESS, as the good doctor describes, “complicity through cooperation by “upwardly mobile members of the non-white population with internalized racism” gets sanctioned. I can’t even fathom a more clear definition of Ward Connerly and his various white male advocacy campaigns. Who ultimately benefits from the destruction of Affirmative Action? Do you deny that white men stand to gain the most when their competition from non-whites and white women are diminished? Do you deny that a return to the system prior to Affirmative Action would be a boon to maintaining the racial hiearchy that undeniably exists in this nation? ”
Cobra, you still don’t understand things don’t you, you ignoramus. How would the banning of race preferences put an end to access to upward mobility to blacks or other non – whites? The banning of race preferences in California because of Prop 209 did not cause a decrease in black or Mexican application numbers to its undergraduate or professional schools. Similar things have happened in Texas or Florida. Only in your cobwebbed and delusional mind does that exist that the result was otherwise. There are still plenty of racism and glass ” ceilings ” in the business world perpetrated by whites, but that has not stopped the rise of black entrepeneurs. There are still barriers against non – whites in medical school even against Asians but that has not prevented them from forming more than 20 % of the medical school freshman class in the entire country. At Rutgers pharmacy school in New jersey and at other pharmacy school in the entire countury there are more Asians than whites. If you prefere to be ignorant and delusional Cobra , be my guest. You really don’t understand a thing about the U of Michigan. Your ideological friends over there like BAMN ( By Any means Necessary ) of the likes of Agnes AGbeloua and the Committee for a United Michigan ( which includes a number of church people ) are really pathetic in their ignorance. If they really want to reduce the number of white people in the University of Michigan , then they would demand the abolition in the University ADmissions Index of provisions that help white people, these provisions are nothing but preferences for white people. Having these provisions abolished would prevent a greater number of white people from attending the university rather than by insisting on race preferences for black people. Among these provisons are giving preferences for
residents of the upper Peninsula ( overwhelmingly white and not necessarily poor ), preferences for the children of alumni ( overwhelmingly white ), attendees of top MIchigan high schools ( overwhelmingly white ), whites attending urban high schools ( that does not mean that all whites attending urban high schools are poor ). It tells you something about the level of studpidity of groups like BAMN and mary sue coleman or patricia gurin and their supproters.
The C
America has a lot of wealthy black people. A lot more than anywhere else, I’d wager.
There is no nation in the world where black people occupy the highest rungs of achievement–unless it is an all black society like Haiti. Thinking like a victim only assures that one stays a victim–of one’s own thinking if nothing else.
The sad but funny thing is that Cobra lays out clearly the thought processes black people use to keep black people down. That kind of thinking has sunk more black people’s chances than any amount of discrimination ever could have in the 30s, 40s, and 50s.
Leo writes:
>>>If they really want to reduce the number of white people in the University of Michigan , then they would demand the abolition in the University ADmissions Index of provisions that help white people, these provisions are nothing but preferences for white people. Having these provisions abolished would prevent a greater number of white people from attending the university rather than by insisting on race preferences for black people. Among these provisons are giving preferences for
residents of the upper Peninsula ( overwhelmingly white and not necessarily poor ), preferences for the children of alumni ( overwhelmingly white ), attendees of top MIchigan high schools ( overwhelmingly white ), whites attending urban high schools ( that does not mean that all whites attending urban high schools are poor ). It tells you something about the level of studpidity of groups like BAMN and mary sue coleman or patricia gurin and their supproters”
What is your point, Leo? You continue to explain quite aptly, the preferences WHITES receive in America, while attacking me for wanting to maintain Affirmative Action. MCRI and these posters here have absolutely NO INTENTION of doing ANYTHING that would hinder white access. Haven’t you READ any of their posts? It’s as though you deliberately IGNORE them, and adhere to some polyanna view of American society, actually FALLING their bait and switch nursery rhyme about “color blindness.”
Leo, you keep harping on the “success” of Asian American students. Please show me where that success is materialized in the white dominated corporate structure of the United States. Do so with FACTS and REFERENCES please.
Veeper writes:
>>>America has a lot of wealthy black people. A lot more than anywhere else, I’d wager.
There is no nation in the world where black people occupy the highest rungs of achievement–unless it is an all black society like Haiti. Thinking like a victim only assures that one stays a victim–of one’s own thinking if nothing else.”
Is Haiti the ONLY nation in the world you know of that is run by blacks? (of course,you pick the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere run by a US Government installed puppet.) Are you making the backhanded suggestion that most blacks should trade off ambition for the “hush money” of a few successful
individuals? Are you suggesting that African Americans are on the same level of wealth and power as White Americans, and if not…should be just happy they’re “allowed” to live here?
What are you suggesting, Veeper?
–Cobra
Cobra has requested that I take another look at the fabulous five principles that make up Prof. Helan Enoch Page’s “definition” of racism. I’ve been relatively good so far this year and can’t imagine what I’ve done to be invited to subject myself to such a fate (reading Dr. Page’s attempt at prose compares unfavorably to listening to fingernails scrape across a chalk board), but because Cobra is so diligent here I’ll give them another look.
O.K. I looked. Below are, as best I can tell, the operative parts of Dr. Page’s five principles / “definition” of racism, as found here:
http://www.euroamerican.org/library/Racismdf.asp
1. “Racism is an ideological, structural and historic stratification process …” by which whites, “through [their] individual and institutional distress patterns …” keep themselves on top. Blah blah blah.
2. The “aim” of this “statification process” has been “to aggretate an uwardly mobile and putatively ‘white’ racial group ….” blah blah blah
3. The “conceptual content” of this “discursive field” is sustained by “racial agents” who justify the suppression of “ideological blackness” blah blah blah.
4. “As a generative principle of racism, ”’ideological whiteness'” refers to a dual behavioral process entailing…” who knows what.
5. Collectively, “the ‘white’ and/or ‘whitened’ members of this racially privileged population tend to bolster their shared political intent to impose patterns of restricted resource access on racially subordinant [sic] populations…” blah blah blah.
Cobra, Really! If I were you I’d be embarrassed to be associated with this tripe. It actually gives jargon a bad name. Compared to Prof. Page, you are a model of concise clarity and eloquence.
Boiled down to their essence (assuming for the sake of argument that her five principles actually have an essence), her “definition” of racism amounts to nothing more than the fact of whites suppressed blacks.
There are reasoned, principled arguments against those of us who oppose racial preferences. Prof. Page’s bloviating is not among them, or even relevant to them. Please waste no more bandwidth citing such drivel.
Whoever commented above that people like Cobra are the ones keeping african americans down was absolutely correct. Constantly magnifying the negative and minimizing the positive has a powerfully self-fulfilling defeatism built into it.
The african americans who succeed are the ones who make a conscious decision to take on the world and win. The self-pitying cry babies might be celebrities in the Ethnic Studies departments and the racial extortion racket organizations but in the real world they’re just people who ruin a lot of black people’s lives.
You totally bypassed the point I was making. Totally.
“Laura, who put MLK in that Birmingham prison, and for what reason? Why don’t you also answer for me who wire tapped King, beat and imprisoned his followers, and ultimately MURDERED him?”
Cobra, why don’t you answer that question for me. I think you believe that white babies bear the guilt of slavery and Jim Crow the second they slide from the womb. I believe that the only thing that would satisfy you is for every white man, woman, and child to slit our throats immediately, irredeemably unregenerate racists that we are from conception.
Stephen, of ALL PEOPLE, at least has the STONES to admit the REAL REASON WHY he’s against Affirmative Action. He feels it doesn’t benefit him as a white man.
Of course you understand Stephen, Cobra. You agree with him. You think of yourself as a black man, and think of him as a white man. So does he. If “white guys win,” he’s happy; if “black guys win,” you’re happy. Stephen may be against AA because it doesn’t benefit him — and he’s correct as far as that goes — but he doesn’t speak for everyone. He’s not more honest than other people; he’s more trollish.
You don’t grasp that most other people don’t view it that way, except insofar as government race preferences make it necessary to do so.
John writes:
>>>There are reasoned, principled arguments against those of us who oppose racial preferences.”
Of course there are, John. You just can’t seem to accept any of them that paints the those who embrace the majority status quo in an unfavorable light. Dismissing white American society’s treatment of non-whites is the CORE…the HEART of the Affirmative Action issue, and you just can’t bring yourself to admit it. Dr. Page’s work certainly isn’t easy to swallow, but neither is the Ken Burns special, “Unforgivable Blackness: The Rise and Fall of Jack Johnson.” A neutral observer wouldn’t have as difficult a time coming to my conclusions as you apparently have given the irrefutable evidence.
Rob Simmons writes:
>>>The african americans who succeed are the ones who make a conscious decision to take on the world and win. The self-pitying cry babies might be celebrities in the Ethnic Studies departments and the racial extortion racket organizations but in the real world they’re just people who ruin a lot of black people’s lives.”
Umm…Rob, what’s your definition of “success”, and what do you call white people who are so outraged in their belief that Affirmative Action “holding them back” that they litigate all the way to the Supreme Court? Would you consider them “cry babies?” Why wouldn’t your advice that they just “take on the world and win” apply to those folks?
Laura writes:
>>>I believe that the only thing that would satisfy you is for every white man, woman, and child to slit our throats immediately, irredeemably unregenerate racists that we are from conception.”
That’s a wee bit over the top, Laura. I have nothing but LOVE for most people. It’s BEHAVIOR that’s the devil in America’s dishwater. I don’t know what lurks inside your mind, or anybody elses. I know people by their WORDS and DEEDS. A neutral observer would come to some striking, non-complementary conclusions about America.
David writes:
>>>You don’t grasp that most other people don’t view it that way, except insofar as government race preferences make it necessary to do so.”
Now, there you go again. What research, or polls can you cite that backs up that statement? What has led you to believe taht “most other people don’t view it that way?” American society through housing, hiring, wages, promotion, (in)justice system, lending, and social interaction would lend a neutral observer to believe the OPPOSITE of your statement.
I freely admit I bring my own personal biases into this discussion. A neutral observer….well..
–Cobra
Well, Cobra, I’m talking about behavior too. Is it your contention that anywhere in America today little black girls are being prevented from going to amusement parks because they are not for colored children? Or is anything else happening in the list of grievances King put forth? Obviously not, because you and the people you quote are reduced to opaque blather when it comes down to trying to describe racism today.
Even if discrimination against blacks IS prevailent in today’s society, how does discrimination agianst whites solve this problem? When do two wrongs make a right? How in the world does discrimination fix discrimination?
Cobra says,
“What is your point, Leo? You continue to explain quite aptly, the preferences WHITES receive in America, while attacking me for wanting to maintain Affirmative Action. MCRI and these posters here have absolutely NO INTENTION of doing ANYTHING that would hinder white access. Haven’t you READ any of their posts? It’s as though you deliberately IGNORE them, and adhere to some polyanna view of American society, actually FALLING their bait and switch nursery rhyme about “color blindness.”
Leo, you keep harping on the “success” of Asian American students. Please show me where that success is materialized in the white dominated corporate structure of the United States. Do so with FACTS and REFERENCES please. ”
Cobra you still don’t uderstand what you are talking about. I had said a long time ago here that preferences wrong, no matter what their kind is. They are vile, sick , demented, depraved and evil. They are an abomination and a pestilence here on earth.I do not really care about whehter you or John or Nieporent agree with me or not. I had been in this business for a long time to understand the mentality of those who oppose and support preferences.Whatever you think about the MCRI, you have no evidence proving that they are out there to prevent blacks from getting inside UM – ANN ARbor. Are they demanding that whites with lower grades be admitted to UM – ann ARbor over blacks
? You are the ones who do not have the facts. You are simply an ignoramus Cobra.
Let me reiterate again about he level of stupidity of groups like BAMN with their talking heads of the likes of Shanta Driver, Agnes Agbeloua and the the Massie siblings.
If these people are really smart along with their clerical allies, they would demand the banning of varous preferences that help whites in the Admissions Index of UM – Ann ARbor. I can see now the level of your ignorance about the UM admissions index inspite of your previous ridiculous proclamations that you know something about it. I had said before that giving preferences
to kids from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is wrong ( they are overwhelmingly white and not all of them are poor ), it is the same story with the children of white UM alumni. The same story can be said of the preferences given to top high schools in MIchigan. The end result of this means that there are more whites who get inside UM _ Ann ARbor thru these kinds of preferences compared to blacks who get into Um Ann Arbor because of race preferences. So why did BAMN and their allies did not denounce and demand the abolition of these preferences that benefit whites? BAMN and their misguided allies could have prevented a greater number of unworthy , incompetent whites from attending UM – Ann ARbor than by insisting on the existence of race preferences for blacks? The level of stupidiy on the part of BAMN is simply unbelievable. Furthermore Cobra, don’t tell me about discrimination against Asians in the business world. I know that there are glass ceilings against Asians and Asians and fought against this and found ways of going around it. That is not however a justification for race preferences for Asians.
Leo writes:
>>>Furthermore Cobra, don’t tell me about discrimination against Asians in the business world. I know that there are glass ceilings against Asians and Asians and fought against this and found ways of going around it. That is not however a justification for race preferences for Asians.”
What are the ways you found of “going around it?” This would be interesting to hear, as many anti-affirmative action types LOVE to posit Asian Americans as the “model minority” on this blog. You also love the word “ignoramous.” I have facts supporting my statements, and learned scholars who reach the same conclusions.
You tell me. You say “nothing justifies preferences.” You don’t know much about American History and Society if you believe that preferences haven’t played a TITANIC role. Your apparent problem, despite your allegedly being against legacies, is that you have more outrage against minorities getting a few preferences NOW, than white Americans for the sum total of American history. That’s an equation that puts you high chair at the table of white male advocacy.
>>>. I had said a long time ago here that preferences wrong, no matter what their kind is. They are vile, sick , demented, depraved and evil. They are an abomination and a pestilence here on earth.I do not really care about whehter you or John or Nieporent agree with me or not.”
Since America was based (some say still is) on white male preferences, do you consider America “vile, sick, demented, depraved and evil?”
Gyp writes:
>>>Even if discrimination against blacks IS prevailent in today’s society, how does discrimination agianst whites solve this problem? When do two wrongs make a right? How in the world does discrimination fix discrimination?”
The goal of Anti-affirmative action types isn’t to fix discrimination. It’s to get rid of Affirmative Action, with any perceived advantage for non-white males. Given the nature of the posts in here, nobody loses much sleep about discrimination against blacks.
Laura writes:
>>>Well, Cobra, I’m talking about behavior too. Is it your contention that anywhere in America today little black girls are being prevented from going to amusement parks because they are not for colored children? ”
If I was to post various recent accounts about segregated swim clubs, proms and accomodations…or accounts of racist incidents therein, (which you KNOW I could do) would it matter one whit to you? I doubt it.
—Cobra
‘ When do two wrongs make a right? How in the world does discrimination fix discrimination?’
By erasing how built into to society discrimination is.
So the way to solve discrimination is by more discrimination? I guess the way to solve crime is to encourage more crime, huh? What utter nonsense!
Anyone else note that this Dr. Helen Page’s thesis seems to be that only white people are capable of racism? See, when blacks do it, it’s called something else. At least that’s what her bizarre ramblings seem to imply.
Cobra, I know you could post those things. I could too. The difference is that they are invitation only. They are not supported by the state, nor offered to the public. Of course that’s racist, and I probably wouldn’t join a club that discriminated by race or whatever, but at some point people have to have the right to choose who they associate with. And I don’t see it as that big a deal, or a hammer to beat all white people with. It’s not like I slap my husband every morning because Augusta Golf Club doesn’t admit women to its membership. If you want to equate private swim clubs’ not admitting blacks with MLK’s Fun Town example, fine, but I think you’re trivializing his message if you do.
‘ I guess the way to solve crime is to encourage more crime, huh? What utter nonsense!’
More like when someone improperly takes money we correct it by taking the money again.
Its certainly not utter nonsense to take race into account when trying to undo what previous race preferences have done.
Laura writes:
>>>Of course that’s racist, and I probably wouldn’t join a club that discriminated by race or whatever, but at some point people have to have the right to choose who they associate with. And I don’t see it as that big a deal, or a hammer to beat all white people with.”
That’s the bottom line, Laura. At some point people have to have the right to choose who they associate with. “Associate” with, work with, hire, promote, admit to school, dine with, live amongst, marry, etc. The heart of segregation was the great fear of “association” between the races at some level. It isn’t beyond reason for me to judge America harshly on this issue. Now, I’ll grant you that America allows an individual to be as privately bigotted and hateful as he or she can be. Far be it from me to rain on anybody’s personal racist parade.
Certainly, given that fact that so many white Americans go out of their way to be racially exclusive in their “associations”, what makes you believe that removing government enforced racial preferences would be of ANY benefit to non-whites? MLK talked about “little black girls and little white girls holding hands and singing the old negro spiritual, “Free at Last..” But that isn’t the goal of “association” that the Anti-affirmative action types allude to.
Apparently, the goal seems to just be “Affirmative Action is wrong. Let’s get rid of it, and let the market fix everything over by oh, the next two hundred years or so.”
I’ve got a hint for those who feel that way. I won’t be around in 2205. I’m here TODAY, and the EVIDENCE shows that there is STILL a “racial association” problem in America. When that problem is resolved to the neccessary satisfaction, I’ll join hand in hand with all of you, including Stephen, and sing…
“Free at last….free at last…Thank God Almighty…we’re free at last!”
–Cobra
“At some point people have to have the right to choose who they associate with. ‘Associate’ with, work with, hire, promote, admit to school, dine with, live amongst, marry, etc.”
Are you being silly? It’s illegal, Cobra, to not hire, promote, admit to school, allow to eat in a restaurant, sell a house, or give a marriage license to someone on the basis of their color. It didn’t use to be, but it is now, and furthermore, the courts are enforcing those laws. By pretending that that is not the case and that nothing has changed, you are belittling MLK’s achievements. I don’t think he had the luxury to worry about whether he would be considered for country club membership. That that sort of thing is now up for consideration as a major grievance is a measure of how far we’ve come.
Laura writes:
>>>Are you being silly? It’s illegal, Cobra, to not hire, promote, admit to school, allow to eat in a restaurant, sell a house, or give a marriage license to someone on the basis of their color.”
C’mon Laura. Now who’s being silly? I’ve used the analogy before, but it’s apt here. You’re telling me that since there are laws on the books, there is no need for proactive measures to fight crime. You’re a bright woman, and make posts I often agree with, because you have a common sense embedded in them.
But if you believe what you just posted
then you also can’t believe cars are stolen, because it’s against the law. Why would there be a need for alarm systems and sophisticated anti-theft devices, since it’s illegal to steal cars? I mean, courts actually prosecute people for grand theft auto these days, right?
–Cobra
I am sick to death of a government that ministers to groups and not individuals; that treats us according to government guidelines utilizing skin color, ethnic background; etc rather than looking at merit. I am tired of being told that I must be indoctrinated into what some moron who objects to the ten commandments tells me is the truth. I recoil from the professional victims who use whatever excuse is most handy to extort monies or advantages rather than work.
Most of all I hate what the Civil Rights Movement has become. Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton and other leeches who wear 2,000 suits and are millionaires while working as? Yeah I love the direction race relations are moving.
“The goal of Anti-affirmative action types isn’t to fix discrimination. It’s to get rid of Affirmative Action, with any perceived advantage for non-white males. Given the nature of the posts in here, nobody loses much sleep about discrimination against blacks.” (Cobra)
What other anti-AA people think is irrelevant. The truth is what matters to me. I am against racial discrimination in any way, shape, or form, whether it be against blacks, whites, asians, native americans, or whoever. If it really is as you say–blacks are being discriminated agianst everywhere they turn–that is a problem that definitely needs fixing. But how is MORE discrimination a solution? I think discrimination against whites won’t help blacks any (white hurt and resentment resluting from it may even make the problems worse). What say you?
“‘ When do two wrongs make a right? How in the world does discrimination fix discrimination?’
By erasing how built into to society discrimination is.” (actus)
So you’re going to make discrimination less prevailent my making it more prevailent? That’s completely illogical, actus.
Oh, and you misinterpreted what Laura said. She said that racial discrimination is being fought against by the passing of laws banning it and the prosecution of those practicing it. She’s saying that it isn’t as prevailent as it was in MLK’s time because of this–she isn’t saying that is doesn’t exist. To fight against grand thft auto you arrest the theives, right? Well, to fight against discrimination you arrest the perpetrators.
That last post was mine, and my last paragraph is directed at Cobra.
~Gyp
Cobra says,
“What are the ways you found of “going around it?” This would be interesting to hear, as many anti-affirmative action types LOVE to posit Asian Americans as the “model minority” on this blog. You also love the word “ignoramous.” I have facts supporting my statements, and learned scholars who reach the same conclusions.
You tell me. You say “nothing justifies preferences.” You don’t know much about American History and Society if you believe that preferences haven’t played a TITANIC role. Your apparent problem, despite your allegedly being against legacies, is that you have more outrage against minorities getting a few preferences NOW, than white Americans for the sum total of American history. That’s an equation that puts you high chair at the table of white male advocacy.
>>>. I had said a long time ago here that preferences wrong, no matter what their kind is. They are vile, sick , demented, depraved and evil. They are an abomination and a pestilence here on earth.I do not really care about whehter you or John or Nieporent agree with me or not.”
Since America was based (some say still is) on white male preferences, do you consider America “vile, sick, demented, depraved and evil?”
Cobra, you indeed are a sterling example of an ignoramus. And who are the scholars that backs up your nonsense ? Hacks like lani Guinier, Martha Tienda, Chris Edley, Gary Orfield, Nancy Cantor ( current prexy of Syracuse University ), Derek Bok and Bill Bowen ( the authors of that infamous tract called the ” Shape of the River “)? They are hardly the harbringers of truth and the dispensers of light in this world my friend. I just got reminded today by some white boy that I am not white ( if you know what I mean ). But that is not gonna stop me from improving myself and becoming richer than that white boy, right Cobra ? Do you know the Delaney sisters ?, the racism they experienced in their lives did not stop one of them from becoming a dentist . I am sure that they trudged the path of success just like many ny blacks who experienced all kinds of insults, obstacles and garbage from white racits be it in academia or a moonlit alley.
When whites created glass ceilings against them in the Silicon Valley, what a substantial number of Asians did was establish their own companies. ARe you telling me that you ought to depend on the largesse and kindheartedness of white folks in this life?. If you still don’t know by now a( and that is because you are an ignoramus, business is now the top choice for a major by black college students ). I guess blacks also want to be entrepeneurs. Sorry Cobra for the temptation to insult, but your nonsense has got to stop. You still had not admitted to the level of stupidty OF BAMN when they insisted on race preferences for blacks rather than demanding the banning of all kinds of preferences for whites in the UM – Ann ARbor . By doing that, they could have prevented a greater number of incompetent and undeserving whites from attending the UM- Ann ARbor than by insisting on race preferences for blacks. If you don’t know
Agnes Agbeloua, Shanta Driver or the Massie siblings ( Luke and Miranda ), then ask around. i am sure BAMN will verify for you as to these people are. You claim that whites received Titanic preferences throughout the history of this country of all kinds. Sure, but that has not prevented black people from rising from whatever degradation whites have consigned them to. 35 years ago, only 4 % of blacks had college degrees, compared to 9 % of whites. Now about 19 % of blacks have college degrees compared to 27 % of whites. As I had said before these titanic preferences for whites have not blacks from being in dean’s list of the College of Engineering at UC Davis and Auburn University and yet be members of the school’s football team. Two weeks ago, the NYT ran a story about Essence Carson, the star woman basketball player of the Rutgers University team. She was raised by her grandmother after her parents divorced. She got a 4.0 average in her high school. Has that got anything to do with the titanic preferences that white folks got thorughout the history of this country? And if Magic Johnson and all these other tich black players and entertainment figures donated their money for scholarships for black folks and along with the banning of race preferemces . the percentage of blacks who would have college degrees would be 27 % by now just like white folks. You had not answered by question also about that white Irish Catholic girl Sandra DAy O’Connor who chose to commit the sin of omission, even if she knew from the far more knowledgeable Indian judge about the true nature of preferences. Human nature being what it is, the Indian judge knew that preferences tend to perpetuate itself, given the experience in his own country. Nobody wants to give up power after all, blacks race preferentialists do not want to give up race preferences because they incur a benefit from it just like the blacks parents of Spelman and Morehouse alumni . Same thing as white folks,the white parents of Stanford , Harvard and other Ivies don’t want to give up the idea of alumni legacy preferences because they derive a benefit from it right ? Now you know hwo the low -lifes are, the ones who belong to the gutter , eh Cobra?
Cobra says,
“What are the ways you found of “going around it?” This would be interesting to hear, as many anti-affirmative action types LOVE to posit Asian Americans as the “model minority” on this blog. You also love the word “ignoramous.” I have facts supporting my statements, and learned scholars who reach the same conclusions.
You tell me. You say “nothing justifies preferences.” You don’t know much about American History and Society if you believe that preferences haven’t played a TITANIC role. Your apparent problem, despite your allegedly being against legacies, is that you have more outrage against minorities getting a few preferences NOW, than white Americans for the sum total of American history. That’s an equation that puts you high chair at the table of white male advocacy.
>>>. I had said a long time ago here that preferences wrong, no matter what their kind is. They are vile, sick , demented, depraved and evil. They are an abomination and a pestilence here on earth.I do not really care about whehter you or John or Nieporent agree with me or not.”
Since America was based (some say still is) on white male preferences, do you consider America “vile, sick, demented, depraved and evil?”
Cobra, you indeed are a sterling example of an ignoramus. And who are the scholars that backs up your nonsense ? Hacks like lani Guinier, Martha Tienda, Chris Edley, Gary Orfield, Nancy Cantor ( current prexy of Syracuse University ), Derek Bok and Bill Bowen ( the authors of that infamous tract called the ” Shape of the River “)? They are hardly the harbringers of truth and the dispensers of light in this world my friend. I just got reminded today by some white boy that I am not white ( if you know what I mean ). But that is not gonna stop me from improving myself and becoming richer than that white boy, right Cobra ? Do you know the Delaney sisters ?, the racism they experienced in their lives did not stop one of them from becoming a dentist . I am sure that they trudged the path of success just like many ny blacks who experienced all kinds of insults, obstacles and garbage from white racits be it in academia or a moonlit alley.
When whites created glass ceilings against them in the Silicon Valley, what a substantial number of Asians did was establish their own companies. ARe you telling me that you ought to depend on the largesse and kindheartedness of white folks in this life?. If you still don’t know by now a( and that is because you are an ignoramus, business is now the top choice for a major by black college students ). I guess blacks also want to be entrepeneurs. Sorry Cobra for the temptation to insult, but your nonsense has got to stop. You still had not admitted to the level of stupidty OF BAMN when they insisted on race preferences for blacks rather than demanding the banning of all kinds of preferences for whites in the UM – Ann ARbor . By doing that, they could have prevented a greater number of incompetent and undeserving whites from attending the UM- Ann ARbor than by insisting on race preferences for blacks. If you don’t know
Agnes Agbeloua, Shanta Driver or the Massie siblings ( Luke and Miranda ), then ask around. i am sure BAMN will verify for you as to these people are. You claim that whites received Titanic preferences throughout the history of this country of all kinds. Sure, but that has not prevented black people from rising from whatever degradation whites have consigned them to. 35 years ago, only 4 % of blacks had college degrees, compared to 9 % of whites. Now about 19 % of blacks have college degrees compared to 27 % of whites. As I had said before these titanic preferences for whites have not blacks from being in dean’s list of the College of Engineering at UC Davis and Auburn University and yet be members of the school’s football team. Two weeks ago, the NYT ran a story about Essence Carson, the star woman basketball player of the Rutgers University team. She was raised by her grandmother after her parents divorced. She got a 4.0 average in her high school. Has that got anything to do with the titanic preferences that white folks got thorughout the history of this country? And if Magic Johnson and all these other tich black players and entertainment figures donated their money for scholarships for black folks and along with the banning of race preferemces . the percentage of blacks who would have college degrees would be 27 % by now just like white folks. You had not answered by question also about that white Irish Catholic girl Sandra DAy O’Connor who chose to commit the sin of omission, even if she knew from the far more knowledgeable Indian judge about the true nature of preferences. Human nature being what it is, the Indian judge knew that preferences tend to perpetuate itself, given the experience in his own country. Nobody wants to give up power after all, blacks race preferentialists do not want to give up race preferences because they incur a benefit from it just like the blacks parents of Spelman and Morehouse alumni . Same thing as white folks,the white parents of Stanford , Harvard and other Ivies don’t want to give up the idea of alumni legacy preferences because they derive a benefit from it right ? Now you know hwo the low -lifes are, the ones who belong to the gutter , eh Cobra?
Cobra says,
“What are the ways you found of “going around it?” This would be interesting to hear, as many anti-affirmative action types LOVE to posit Asian Americans as the “model minority” on this blog. You also love the word “ignoramous.” I have facts supporting my statements, and learned scholars who reach the same conclusions.
You tell me. You say “nothing justifies preferences.” You don’t know much about American History and Society if you believe that preferences haven’t played a TITANIC role. Your apparent problem, despite your allegedly being against legacies, is that you have more outrage against minorities getting a few preferences NOW, than white Americans for the sum total of American history. That’s an equation that puts you high chair at the table of white male advocacy.
>>>. I had said a long time ago here that preferences wrong, no matter what their kind is. They are vile, sick , demented, depraved and evil. They are an abomination and a pestilence here on earth.I do not really care about whehter you or John or Nieporent agree with me or not.”
Since America was based (some say still is) on white male preferences, do you consider America “vile, sick, demented, depraved and evil?”
Cobra, you indeed are a sterling example of an ignoramus. And who are the scholars that backs up your nonsense ? Hacks like lani Guinier, Martha Tienda, Chris Edley, Gary Orfield, Nancy Cantor ( current prexy of Syracuse University ), Derek Bok and Bill Bowen ( the authors of that infamous tract called the ” Shape of the River “)? They are hardly the harbringers of truth and the dispensers of light in this world my friend. I just got reminded today by some white boy that I am not white ( if you know what I mean ). But that is not gonna stop me from improving myself and becoming richer than that white boy, right Cobra ? Do you know the Delaney sisters ?, the racism they experienced in their lives did not stop one of them from becoming a dentist . I am sure that they trudged the path of success just like many ny blacks who experienced all kinds of insults, obstacles and garbage from white racits be it in academia or a moonlit alley.
When whites created glass ceilings against them in the Silicon Valley, what a substantial number of Asians did was establish their own companies. ARe you telling me that you ought to depend on the largesse and kindheartedness of white folks in this life?. If you still don’t know by now a( and that is because you are an ignoramus, business is now the top choice for a major by black college students ). I guess blacks also want to be entrepeneurs. Sorry Cobra for the temptation to insult, but your nonsense has got to stop. You still had not admitted to the level of stupidty OF BAMN when they insisted on race preferences for blacks rather than demanding the banning of all kinds of preferences for whites in the UM – Ann ARbor . By doing that, they could have prevented a greater number of incompetent and undeserving whites from attending the UM- Ann ARbor than by insisting on race preferences for blacks. If you don’t know
Agnes Agbeloua, Shanta Driver or the Massie siblings ( Luke and Miranda ), then ask around. i am sure BAMN will verify for you as to these people are. You claim that whites received Titanic preferences throughout the history of this country of all kinds. Sure, but that has not prevented black people from rising from whatever degradation whites have consigned them to. 35 years ago, only 4 % of blacks had college degrees, compared to 9 % of whites. Now about 19 % of blacks have college degrees compared to 27 % of whites. As I had said before these titanic preferences for whites have not blacks from being in dean’s list of the College of Engineering at UC Davis and Auburn University and yet be members of the school’s football team. Two weeks ago, the NYT ran a story about Essence Carson, the star woman basketball player of the Rutgers University team. She was raised by her grandmother after her parents divorced. She got a 4.0 average in her high school. Has that got anything to do with the titanic preferences that white folks got thorughout the history of this country? And if Magic Johnson and all these other tich black players and entertainment figures donated their money for scholarships for black folks and along with the banning of race preferemces . the percentage of blacks who would have college degrees would be 27 % by now just like white folks. You had not answered by question also about that white Irish Catholic girl Sandra DAy O’Connor who chose to commit the sin of omission, even if she knew from the far more knowledgeable Indian judge about the true nature of preferences. Human nature being what it is, the Indian judge knew that preferences tend to perpetuate itself, given the experience in his own country. Nobody wants to give up power after all, blacks race preferentialists do not want to give up race preferences because they incur a benefit from it just like the blacks parents of Spelman and Morehouse alumni . Same thing as white folks,the white parents of Stanford , Harvard and other Ivies don’t want to give up the idea of alumni legacy preferences because they derive a benefit from it right ? Now you know hwo the low -lifes are, the ones who belong to the gutter , eh Cobra?
Cobra says,
“What are the ways you found of “going around it?” This would be interesting to hear, as many anti-affirmative action types LOVE to posit Asian Americans as the “model minority” on this blog. You also love the word “ignoramous.” I have facts supporting my statements, and learned scholars who reach the same conclusions.
You tell me. You say “nothing justifies preferences.” You don’t know much about American History and Society if you believe that preferences haven’t played a TITANIC role. Your apparent problem, despite your allegedly being against legacies, is that you have more outrage against minorities getting a few preferences NOW, than white Americans for the sum total of American history. That’s an equation that puts you high chair at the table of white male advocacy.
>>>. I had said a long time ago here that preferences wrong, no matter what their kind is. They are vile, sick , demented, depraved and evil. They are an abomination and a pestilence here on earth.I do not really care about whehter you or John or Nieporent agree with me or not.”
Since America was based (some say still is) on white male preferences, do you consider America “vile, sick, demented, depraved and evil?”
Cobra, you indeed are a sterling example of an ignoramus. And who are the scholars that backs up your nonsense ? Hacks like lani Guinier, Martha Tienda, Chris Edley, Gary Orfield, Nancy Cantor ( current prexy of Syracuse University ), Derek Bok and Bill Bowen ( the authors of that infamous tract called the ” Shape of the River “)? They are hardly the harbringers of truth and the dispensers of light in this world my friend. I just got reminded today by some white boy that I am not white ( if you know what I mean ). But that is not gonna stop me from improving myself and becoming richer than that white boy, right Cobra ? Do you know the Delaney sisters ?, the racism they experienced in their lives did not stop one of them from becoming a dentist . I am sure that they trudged the path of success just like many ny blacks who experienced all kinds of insults, obstacles and garbage from white racits be it in academia or a moonlit alley.
When whites created glass ceilings against them in the Silicon Valley, what a substantial number of Asians did was establish their own companies. ARe you telling me that you ought to depend on the largesse and kindheartedness of white folks in this life?. If you still don’t know by now a( and that is because you are an ignoramus, business is now the top choice for a major by black college students ). I guess blacks also want to be entrepeneurs. Sorry Cobra for the temptation to insult, but your nonsense has got to stop. You still had not admitted to the level of stupidty OF BAMN when they insisted on race preferences for blacks rather than demanding the banning of all kinds of preferences for whites in the UM – Ann ARbor . By doing that, they could have prevented a greater number of incompetent and undeserving whites from attending the UM- Ann ARbor than by insisting on race preferences for blacks. If you don’t know
Agnes Agbeloua, Shanta Driver or the Massie siblings ( Luke and Miranda ), then ask around. i am sure BAMN will verify for you as to these people are. You claim that whites received Titanic preferences throughout the history of this country of all kinds. Sure, but that has not prevented black people from rising from whatever degradation whites have consigned them to. 35 years ago, only 4 % of blacks had college degrees, compared to 9 % of whites. Now about 19 % of blacks have college degrees compared to 27 % of whites. As I had said before these titanic preferences for whites have not blacks from being in dean’s list of the College of Engineering at UC Davis and Auburn University and yet be members of the school’s football team. Two weeks ago, the NYT ran a story about Essence Carson, the star woman basketball player of the Rutgers University team. She was raised by her grandmother after her parents divorced. She got a 4.0 average in her high school. Has that got anything to do with the titanic preferences that white folks got thorughout the history of this country? And if Magic Johnson and all these other tich black players and entertainment figures donated their money for scholarships for black folks and along with the banning of race preferemces . the percentage of blacks who would have college degrees would be 27 % by now just like white folks. You had not answered by question also about that white Irish Catholic girl Sandra DAy O’Connor who chose to commit the sin of omission, even if she knew from the far more knowledgeable Indian judge about the true nature of preferences. Human nature being what it is, the Indian judge knew that preferences tend to perpetuate itself, given the experience in his own country. Nobody wants to give up power after all, blacks race preferentialists do not want to give up race preferences because they incur a benefit from it just like the blacks parents of Spelman and Morehouse alumni . Same thing as white folks,the white parents of Stanford , Harvard and other Ivies don’t want to give up the idea of alumni legacy preferences because they derive a benefit from it right ? Now you know hwo the low -lifes are, the ones who belong to the gutter , eh Cobra?
Cobra,
What I meant was that many black parents of Morehouse and Spelman alumni support alumni legacy preferences. They are no different from many white parents of Stanford, Harvard and ivy League alumni who support alumni legacy preferences. it would not be hard for you to figure out who the low -lifes are and who belong to the gutter.
Cobra
If you don’t want to believe what I say about the facts that I had given you in the last 2 e-mails , you can always consult the US Census Bureau and all the persons and organizations that I had mentioned.
Cobra says,
“What are the ways you found of “going around it?” This would be interesting to hear, as many anti-affirmative action types LOVE to posit Asian Americans as the “model minority” on this blog. You also love the word “ignoramous.” I have facts supporting my statements, and learned scholars who reach the same conclusions.
You tell me. You say “nothing justifies preferences.” You don’t know much about American History and Society if you believe that preferences haven’t played a TITANIC role. Your apparent problem, despite your allegedly being against legacies, is that you have more outrage against minorities getting a few preferences NOW, than white Americans for the sum total of American history. That’s an equation that puts you high chair at the table of white male advocacy.
>>>. I had said a long time ago here that preferences wrong, no matter what their kind is. They are vile, sick , demented, depraved and evil. They are an abomination and a pestilence here on earth.I do not really care about whehter you or John or Nieporent agree with me or not.”
Since America was based (some say still is) on white male preferences, do you consider America “vile, sick, demented, depraved and evil?”
Cobra, you indeed are a sterling example of an ignoramus. And who are the scholars that backs up your nonsense ? Hacks like lani Guinier, Martha Tienda, Chris Edley, Gary Orfield, Nancy Cantor ( current prexy of Syracuse University ), Derek Bok and Bill Bowen ( the authors of that infamous tract called the ” Shape of the River “)? They are hardly the harbringers of truth and the dispensers of light in this world my friend. I just got reminded today by some white boy that I am not white ( if you know what I mean ). But that is not gonna stop me from improving myself and becoming richer than that white boy, right Cobra ? Do you know the Delaney sisters ?, the racism they experienced in their lives did not stop one of them from becoming a dentist . I am sure that they trudged the path of success just like many ny blacks who experienced all kinds of insults, obstacles and garbage from white racits be it in academia or a moonlit alley.
When whites created glass ceilings against them in the Silicon Valley, what a substantial number of Asians did was establish their own companies. ARe you telling me that you ought to depend on the largesse and kindheartedness of white folks in this life?. If you still don’t know by now a( and that is because you are an ignoramus, business is now the top choice for a major by black college students ). I guess blacks also want to be entrepeneurs. Sorry Cobra for the temptation to insult, but your nonsense has got to stop. You still had not admitted to the level of stupidty OF BAMN when they insisted on race preferences for blacks rather than demanding the banning of all kinds of preferences for whites in the UM – Ann ARbor . By doing that, they could have prevented a greater number of incompetent and undeserving whites from attending the UM- Ann ARbor than by insisting on race preferences for blacks. If you don’t know
Agnes Agbeloua, Shanta Driver or the Massie siblings ( Luke and Miranda ), then ask around. i am sure BAMN will verify for you as to these people are. You claim that whites received Titanic preferences throughout the history of this country of all kinds. Sure, but that has not prevented black people from rising from whatever degradation whites have consigned them to. 35 years ago, only 4 % of blacks had college degrees, compared to 9 % of whites. Now about 19 % of blacks have college degrees compared to 27 % of whites. As I had said before these titanic preferences for whites have not blacks from being in dean’s list of the College of Engineering at UC Davis and Auburn University and yet be members of the school’s football team. Two weeks ago, the NYT ran a story about Essence Carson, the star woman basketball player of the Rutgers University team. She was raised by her grandmother after her parents divorced. She got a 4.0 average in her high school. Has that got anything to do with the titanic preferences that white folks got thorughout the history of this country? And if Magic Johnson and all these other tich black players and entertainment figures donated their money for scholarships for black folks and along with the banning of race preferemces . the percentage of blacks who would have college degrees would be 27 % by now just like white folks. You had not answered by question also about that white Irish Catholic girl Sandra DAy O’Connor who chose to commit the sin of omission, even if she knew from the far more knowledgeable Indian judge about the true nature of preferences. Human nature being what it is, the Indian judge knew that preferences tend to perpetuate itself, given the experience in his own country. Nobody wants to give up power after all, blacks race preferentialists do not want to give up race preferences because they incur a benefit from it just like the blacks parents of Spelman and Morehouse alumni . Same thing as white folks,the white parents of Stanford , Harvard and other Ivies don’t want to give up the idea of alumni legacy preferences because they derive a benefit from it right ? Now you know hwo the low -lifes are, the ones who belong to the gutter , eh Cobra?
Cobra says,
“What are the ways you found of “going around it?” This would be interesting to hear, as many anti-affirmative action types LOVE to posit Asian Americans as the “model minority” on this blog. You also love the word “ignoramous.” I have facts supporting my statements, and learned scholars who reach the same conclusions.
You tell me. You say “nothing justifies preferences.” You don’t know much about American History and Society if you believe that preferences haven’t played a TITANIC role. Your apparent problem, despite your allegedly being against legacies, is that you have more outrage against minorities getting a few preferences NOW, than white Americans for the sum total of American history. That’s an equation that puts you high chair at the table of white male advocacy.
>>>. I had said a long time ago here that preferences wrong, no matter what their kind is. They are vile, sick , demented, depraved and evil. They are an abomination and a pestilence here on earth.I do not really care about whehter you or John or Nieporent agree with me or not.”
Since America was based (some say still is) on white male preferences, do you consider America “vile, sick, demented, depraved and evil?”
Cobra, you indeed are a sterling example of an ignoramus. And who are the scholars that backs up your nonsense ? Hacks like lani Guinier, Martha Tienda, Chris Edley, Gary Orfield, Nancy Cantor ( current prexy of Syracuse University ), Derek Bok and Bill Bowen ( the authors of that infamous tract called the ” Shape of the River “)? They are hardly the harbringers of truth and the dispensers of light in this world my friend. I just got reminded today by some white boy that I am not white ( if you know what I mean ). But that is not gonna stop me from improving myself and becoming richer than that white boy, right Cobra ? Do you know the Delaney sisters ?, the racism they experienced in their lives did not stop one of them from becoming a dentist . I am sure that they trudged the path of success just like many ny blacks who experienced all kinds of insults, obstacles and garbage from white racits be it in academia or a moonlit alley.
When whites created glass ceilings against them in the Silicon Valley, what a substantial number of Asians did was establish their own companies. ARe you telling me that you ought to depend on the largesse and kindheartedness of white folks in this life?. If you still don’t know by now a( and that is because you are an ignoramus, business is now the top choice for a major by black college students ). I guess blacks also want to be entrepeneurs. Sorry Cobra for the temptation to insult, but your nonsense has got to stop. You still had not admitted to the level of stupidty OF BAMN when they insisted on race preferences for blacks rather than demanding the banning of all kinds of preferences for whites in the UM – Ann ARbor . By doing that, they could have prevented a greater number of incompetent and undeserving whites from attending the UM- Ann ARbor than by insisting on race preferences for blacks. If you don’t know
Agnes Agbeloua, Shanta Driver or the Massie siblings ( Luke and Miranda ), then ask around. i am sure BAMN will verify for you as to these people are. You claim that whites received Titanic preferences throughout the history of this country of all kinds. Sure, but that has not prevented black people from rising from whatever degradation whites have consigned them to. 35 years ago, only 4 % of blacks had college degrees, compared to 9 % of whites. Now about 19 % of blacks have college degrees compared to 27 % of whites. As I had said before these titanic preferences for whites have not blacks from being in dean’s list of the College of Engineering at UC Davis and Auburn University and yet be members of the school’s football team. Two weeks ago, the NYT ran a story about Essence Carson, the star woman basketball player of the Rutgers University team. She was raised by her grandmother after her parents divorced. She got a 4.0 average in her high school. Has that got anything to do with the titanic preferences that white folks got thorughout the history of this country? And if Magic Johnson and all these other tich black players and entertainment figures donated their money for scholarships for black folks and along with the banning of race preferemces . the percentage of blacks who would have college degrees would be 27 % by now just like white folks. You had not answered by question also about that white Irish Catholic girl Sandra DAy O’Connor who chose to commit the sin of omission, even if she knew from the far more knowledgeable Indian judge about the true nature of preferences. Human nature being what it is, the Indian judge knew that preferences tend to perpetuate itself, given the experience in his own country. Nobody wants to give up power after all, blacks race preferentialists do not want to give up race preferences because they incur a benefit from it just like the blacks parents of Spelman and Morehouse alumni . Same thing as white folks,the white parents of Stanford , Harvard and other Ivies don’t want to give up the idea of alumni legacy preferences because they derive a benefit from it right ? Now you know hwo the low -lifes are, the ones who belong to the gutter , eh Cobra?
Cobra says,
“What are the ways you found of “going around it?” This would be interesting to hear, as many anti-affirmative action types LOVE to posit Asian Americans as the “model minority” on this blog. You also love the word “ignoramous.” I have facts supporting my statements, and learned scholars who reach the same conclusions.
You tell me. You say “nothing justifies preferences.” You don’t know much about American History and Society if you believe that preferences haven’t played a TITANIC role. Your apparent problem, despite your allegedly being against legacies, is that you have more outrage against minorities getting a few preferences NOW, than white Americans for the sum total of American history. That’s an equation that puts you high chair at the table of white male advocacy.
>>>. I had said a long time ago here that preferences wrong, no matter what their kind is. They are vile, sick , demented, depraved and evil. They are an abomination and a pestilence here on earth.I do not really care about whehter you or John or Nieporent agree with me or not.”
Since America was based (some say still is) on white male preferences, do you consider America “vile, sick, demented, depraved and evil?”
Cobra, you indeed are a sterling example of an ignoramus. And who are the scholars that backs up your nonsense ? Hacks like lani Guinier, Martha Tienda, Chris Edley, Gary Orfield, Nancy Cantor ( current prexy of Syracuse University ), Derek Bok and Bill Bowen ( the authors of that infamous tract called the ” Shape of the River “)? They are hardly the harbringers of truth and the dispensers of light in this world my friend. I just got reminded today by some white boy that I am not white ( if you know what I mean ). But that is not gonna stop me from improving myself and becoming richer than that white boy, right Cobra ? Do you know the Delaney sisters ?, the racism they experienced in their lives did not stop one of them from becoming a dentist . I am sure that they trudged the path of success just like many ny blacks who experienced all kinds of insults, obstacles and garbage from white racits be it in academia or a moonlit alley.
When whites created glass ceilings against them in the Silicon Valley, what a substantial number of Asians did was establish their own companies. ARe you telling me that you ought to depend on the largesse and kindheartedness of white folks in this life?. If you still don’t know by now a( and that is because you are an ignoramus, business is now the top choice for a major by black college students ). I guess blacks also want to be entrepeneurs. Sorry Cobra for the temptation to insult, but your nonsense has got to stop. You still had not admitted to the level of stupidty OF BAMN when they insisted on race preferences for blacks rather than demanding the banning of all kinds of preferences for whites in the UM – Ann ARbor . By doing that, they could have prevented a greater number of incompetent and undeserving whites from attending the UM- Ann ARbor than by insisting on race preferences for blacks. If you don’t know
Agnes Agbeloua, Shanta Driver or the Massie siblings ( Luke and Miranda ), then ask around. i am sure BAMN will verify for you as to these people are. You claim that whites received Titanic preferences throughout the history of this country of all kinds. Sure, but that has not prevented black people from rising from whatever degradation whites have consigned them to. 35 years ago, only 4 % of blacks had college degrees, compared to 9 % of whites. Now about 19 % of blacks have college degrees compared to 27 % of whites. As I had said before these titanic preferences for whites have not blacks from being in dean’s list of the College of Engineering at UC Davis and Auburn University and yet be members of the school’s football team. Two weeks ago, the NYT ran a story about Essence Carson, the star woman basketball player of the Rutgers University team. She was raised by her grandmother after her parents divorced. She got a 4.0 average in her high school. Has that got anything to do with the titanic preferences that white folks got thorughout the history of this country? And if Magic Johnson and all these other tich black players and entertainment figures donated their money for scholarships for black folks and along with the banning of race preferemces . the percentage of blacks who would have college degrees would be 27 % by now just like white folks. You had not answered by question also about that white Irish Catholic girl Sandra DAy O’Connor who chose to commit the sin of omission, even if she knew from the far more knowledgeable Indian judge about the true nature of preferences. Human nature being what it is, the Indian judge knew that preferences tend to perpetuate itself, given the experience in his own country. Nobody wants to give up power after all, blacks race preferentialists do not want to give up race preferences because they incur a benefit from it just like the blacks parents of Spelman and Morehouse alumni . Same thing as white folks,the white parents of Stanford , Harvard and other Ivies don’t want to give up the idea of alumni legacy preferences because they derive a benefit from it right ? Now you know hwo the low -lifes are, the ones who belong to the gutter , eh Cobra?
Cobra says,
“What are the ways you found of “going around it?” This would be interesting to hear, as many anti-affirmative action types LOVE to posit Asian Americans as the “model minority” on this blog. You also love the word “ignoramous.” I have facts supporting my statements, and learned scholars who reach the same conclusions.
You tell me. You say “nothing justifies preferences.” You don’t know much about American History and Society if you believe that preferences haven’t played a TITANIC role. Your apparent problem, despite your allegedly being against legacies, is that you have more outrage against minorities getting a few preferences NOW, than white Americans for the sum total of American history. That’s an equation that puts you high chair at the table of white male advocacy.
>>>. I had said a long time ago here that preferences wrong, no matter what their kind is. They are vile, sick , demented, depraved and evil. They are an abomination and a pestilence here on earth.I do not really care about whehter you or John or Nieporent agree with me or not.”
Since America was based (some say still is) on white male preferences, do you consider America “vile, sick, demented, depraved and evil?”
Cobra, you indeed are a sterling example of an ignoramus. And who are the scholars that backs up your nonsense ? Hacks like lani Guinier, Martha Tienda, Chris Edley, Gary Orfield, Nancy Cantor ( current prexy of Syracuse University ), Derek Bok and Bill Bowen ( the authors of that infamous tract called the ” Shape of the River “)? They are hardly the harbringers of truth and the dispensers of light in this world my friend. I just got reminded today by some white boy that I am not white ( if you know what I mean ). But that is not gonna stop me from improving myself and becoming richer than that white boy, right Cobra ? Do you know the Delaney sisters ?, the racism they experienced in their lives did not stop one of them from becoming a dentist . I am sure that they trudged the path of success just like many ny blacks who experienced all kinds of insults, obstacles and garbage from white racits be it in academia or a moonlit alley.
When whites created glass ceilings against them in the Silicon Valley, what a substantial number of Asians did was establish their own companies. ARe you telling me that you ought to depend on the largesse and kindheartedness of white folks in this life?. If you still don’t know by now a( and that is because you are an ignoramus, business is now the top choice for a major by black college students ). I guess blacks also want to be entrepeneurs. Sorry Cobra for the temptation to insult, but your nonsense has got to stop. You still had not admitted to the level of stupidty OF BAMN when they insisted on race preferences for blacks rather than demanding the banning of all kinds of preferences for whites in the UM – Ann ARbor . By doing that, they could have prevented a greater number of incompetent and undeserving whites from attending the UM- Ann ARbor than by insisting on race preferences for blacks. If you don’t know
Agnes Agbeloua, Shanta Driver or the Massie siblings ( Luke and Miranda ), then ask around. i am sure BAMN will verify for you as to these people are. You claim that whites received Titanic preferences throughout the history of this country of all kinds. Sure, but that has not prevented black people from rising from whatever degradation whites have consigned them to. 35 years ago, only 4 % of blacks had college degrees, compared to 9 % of whites. Now about 19 % of blacks have college degrees compared to 27 % of whites. As I had said before these titanic preferences for whites have not blacks from being in dean’s list of the College of Engineering at UC Davis and Auburn University and yet be members of the school’s football team. Two weeks ago, the NYT ran a story about Essence Carson, the star woman basketball player of the Rutgers University team. She was raised by her grandmother after her parents divorced. She got a 4.0 average in her high school. Has that got anything to do with the titanic preferences that white folks got thorughout the history of this country? And if Magic Johnson and all these other tich black players and entertainment figures donated their money for scholarships for black folks and along with the banning of race preferemces . the percentage of blacks who would have college degrees would be 27 % by now just like white folks. You had not answered by question also about that white Irish Catholic girl Sandra DAy O’Connor who chose to commit the sin of omission, even if she knew from the far more knowledgeable Indian judge about the true nature of preferences. Human nature being what it is, the Indian judge knew that preferences tend to perpetuate itself, given the experience in his own country. Nobody wants to give up power after all, blacks race preferentialists do not want to give up race preferences because they incur a benefit from it just like the blacks parents of Spelman and Morehouse alumni . Same thing as white folks,the white parents of Stanford , Harvard and other Ivies don’t want to give up the idea of alumni legacy preferences because they derive a benefit from it right ? Now you know hwo the low -lifes are, the ones who belong to the gutter , eh Cobra?
Cobra says,
“What are the ways you found of “going around it?” This would be interesting to hear, as many anti-affirmative action types LOVE to posit Asian Americans as the “model minority” on this blog. You also love the word “ignoramous.” I have facts supporting my statements, and learned scholars who reach the same conclusions.
You tell me. You say “nothing justifies preferences.” You don’t know much about American History and Society if you believe that preferences haven’t played a TITANIC role. Your apparent problem, despite your allegedly being against legacies, is that you have more outrage against minorities getting a few preferences NOW, than white Americans for the sum total of American history. That’s an equation that puts you high chair at the table of white male advocacy.
>>>. I had said a long time ago here that preferences wrong, no matter what their kind is. They are vile, sick , demented, depraved and evil. They are an abomination and a pestilence here on earth.I do not really care about whehter you or John or Nieporent agree with me or not.”
Since America was based (some say still is) on white male preferences, do you consider America “vile, sick, demented, depraved and evil?”
Cobra, you indeed are a sterling example of an ignoramus. And who are the scholars that backs up your nonsense ? Hacks like lani Guinier, Martha Tienda, Chris Edley, Gary Orfield, Nancy Cantor ( current prexy of Syracuse University ), Derek Bok and Bill Bowen ( the authors of that infamous tract called the ” Shape of the River “)? They are hardly the harbringers of truth and the dispensers of light in this world my friend. I just got reminded today by some white boy that I am not white ( if you know what I mean ). But that is not gonna stop me from improving myself and becoming richer than that white boy, right Cobra ? Do you know the Delaney sisters ?, the racism they experienced in their lives did not stop one of them from becoming a dentist . I am sure that they trudged the path of success just like many ny blacks who experienced all kinds of insults, obstacles and garbage from white racits be it in academia or a moonlit alley.
When whites created glass ceilings against them in the Silicon Valley, what a substantial number of Asians did was establish their own companies. ARe you telling me that you ought to depend on the largesse and kindheartedness of white folks in this life?. If you still don’t know by now a( and that is because you are an ignoramus, business is now the top choice for a major by black college students ). I guess blacks also want to be entrepeneurs. Sorry Cobra for the temptation to insult, but your nonsense has got to stop. You still had not admitted to the level of stupidty OF BAMN when they insisted on race preferences for blacks rather than demanding the banning of all kinds of preferences for whites in the UM – Ann ARbor . By doing that, they could have prevented a greater number of incompetent and undeserving whites from attending the UM- Ann ARbor than by insisting on race preferences for blacks. If you don’t know
Agnes Agbeloua, Shanta Driver or the Massie siblings ( Luke and Miranda ), then ask around. i am sure BAMN will verify for you as to these people are. You claim that whites received Titanic preferences throughout the history of this country of all kinds. Sure, but that has not prevented black people from rising from whatever degradation whites have consigned them to. 35 years ago, only 4 % of blacks had college degrees, compared to 9 % of whites. Now about 19 % of blacks have college degrees compared to 27 % of whites. As I had said before these titanic preferences for whites have not blacks from being in dean’s list of the College of Engineering at UC Davis and Auburn University and yet be members of the school’s football team. Two weeks ago, the NYT ran a story about Essence Carson, the star woman basketball player of the Rutgers University team. She was raised by her grandmother after her parents divorced. She got a 4.0 average in her high school. Has that got anything to do with the titanic preferences that white folks got thorughout the history of this country? And if Magic Johnson and all these other tich black players and entertainment figures donated their money for scholarships for black folks and along with the banning of race preferemces . the percentage of blacks who would have college degrees would be 27 % by now just like white folks. You had not answered by question also about that white Irish Catholic girl Sandra DAy O’Connor who chose to commit the sin of omission, even if she knew from the far more knowledgeable Indian judge about the true nature of preferences. Human nature being what it is, the Indian judge knew that preferences tend to perpetuate itself, given the experience in his own country. Nobody wants to give up power after all, blacks race preferentialists do not want to give up race preferences because they incur a benefit from it just like the blacks parents of Spelman and Morehouse alumni . Same thing as white folks,the white parents of Stanford , Harvard and other Ivies don’t want to give up the idea of alumni legacy preferences because they derive a benefit from it right ? Now you know hwo the low -lifes are, the ones who belong to the gutter , eh Cobra?
Cobra says,
“What are the ways you found of “going around it?” This would be interesting to hear, as many anti-affirmative action types LOVE to posit Asian Americans as the “model minority” on this blog. You also love the word “ignoramous.” I have facts supporting my statements, and learned scholars who reach the same conclusions.
You tell me. You say “nothing justifies preferences.” You don’t know much about American History and Society if you believe that preferences haven’t played a TITANIC role. Your apparent problem, despite your allegedly being against legacies, is that you have more outrage against minorities getting a few preferences NOW, than white Americans for the sum total of American history. That’s an equation that puts you high chair at the table of white male advocacy.
>>>. I had said a long time ago here that preferences wrong, no matter what their kind is. They are vile, sick , demented, depraved and evil. They are an abomination and a pestilence here on earth.I do not really care about whehter you or John or Nieporent agree with me or not.”
Since America was based (some say still is) on white male preferences, do you consider America “vile, sick, demented, depraved and evil?”
Cobra, you indeed are a sterling example of an ignoramus. And who are the scholars that backs up your nonsense ? Hacks like lani Guinier, Martha Tienda, Chris Edley, Gary Orfield, Nancy Cantor ( current prexy of Syracuse University ), Derek Bok and Bill Bowen ( the authors of that infamous tract called the ” Shape of the River “)? They are hardly the harbringers of truth and the dispensers of light in this world my friend. I just got reminded today by some white boy that I am not white ( if you know what I mean ). But that is not gonna stop me from improving myself and becoming richer than that white boy, right Cobra ? Do you know the Delaney sisters ?, the racism they experienced in their lives did not stop one of them from becoming a dentist . I am sure that they trudged the path of success just like many ny blacks who experienced all kinds of insults, obstacles and garbage from white racits be it in academia or a moonlit alley.
When whites created glass ceilings against them in the Silicon Valley, what a substantial number of Asians did was establish their own companies. ARe you telling me that you ought to depend on the largesse and kindheartedness of white folks in this life?. If you still don’t know by now a( and that is because you are an ignoramus, business is now the top choice for a major by black college students ). I guess blacks also want to be entrepeneurs. Sorry Cobra for the temptation to insult, but your nonsense has got to stop. You still had not admitted to the level of stupidty OF BAMN when they insisted on race preferences for blacks rather than demanding the banning of all kinds of preferences for whites in the UM – Ann ARbor . By doing that, they could have prevented a greater number of incompetent and undeserving whites from attending the UM- Ann ARbor than by insisting on race preferences for blacks. If you don’t know
Agnes Agbeloua, Shanta Driver or the Massie siblings ( Luke and Miranda ), then ask around. i am sure BAMN will verify for you as to these people are. You claim that whites received Titanic preferences throughout the history of this country of all kinds. Sure, but that has not prevented black people from rising from whatever degradation whites have consigned them to. 35 years ago, only 4 % of blacks had college degrees, compared to 9 % of whites. Now about 19 % of blacks have college degrees compared to 27 % of whites. As I had said before these titanic preferences for whites have not blacks from being in dean’s list of the College of Engineering at UC Davis and Auburn University and yet be members of the school’s football team. Two weeks ago, the NYT ran a story about Essence Carson, the star woman basketball player of the Rutgers University team. She was raised by her grandmother after her parents divorced. She got a 4.0 average in her high school. Has that got anything to do with the titanic preferences that white folks got thorughout the history of this country? And if Magic Johnson and all these other tich black players and entertainment figures donated their money for scholarships for black folks and along with the banning of race preferemces . the percentage of blacks who would have college degrees would be 27 % by now just like white folks. You had not answered by question also about that white Irish Catholic girl Sandra DAy O’Connor who chose to commit the sin of omission, even if she knew from the far more knowledgeable Indian judge about the true nature of preferences. Human nature being what it is, the Indian judge knew that preferences tend to perpetuate itself, given the experience in his own country. Nobody wants to give up power after all, blacks race preferentialists do not want to give up race preferences because they incur a benefit from it just like the blacks parents of Spelman and Morehouse alumni . Same thing as white folks,the white parents of Stanford , Harvard and other Ivies don’t want to give up the idea of alumni legacy preferences because they derive a benefit from it right ? Now you know hwo the low -lifes are, the ones who belong to the gutter , eh Cobra?
leo cruz writes:
>>>Nobody wants to give up power after all, blacks race preferentialists do not want to give up race preferences because they incur a benefit from it just like the blacks parents of Spelman and Morehouse alumni . Same thing as white folks,the white parents of Stanford , Harvard and other Ivies don’t want to give up the idea of alumni legacy preferences because they derive a benefit from it right ? Now you know hwo the low -lifes are, the ones who belong to the gutter , eh Cobra?”
You know, Leo, the great thing about your posts is that when you sift through the name-dropping and name- calling, you actually get around to VALIDATING MY POINT OF VIEW.
If you believe that “nobody wants to give up power”, then you have the ultimate rationalization for Affirmative Action, because as we all know,overwhelmingly, whites have the most power in America.
Now, your main point has been that “nothing justifies preferences”, so putting the two statements together, you must logically ENDORSE THE WHITE AMERICAN MALE POWER STRUCTURE, NO MATTER HOW DISCRIMINATORY AGAINST WOMEN OR MINORITIES IT IS.
It is the ONLY conclusion you can draw from a collective statement “Nobody wants to give up power, but nothing justifies preferences.”
You’ve already acknowleged in other posts that discrimination exists, but you offer no remedies save, “try harder, and work around the system.”
Despite your protests to the contrary, your position is nearly in lock step with many other anti-affirmative action types. I find it puzzling that you would align yourself with a group that you claim doesn’t want to share power.
I’m sure you’ll answer with the list of liberal academic devils you’re accustomed to listing. I’m sure I’ll be called an “ignoramus.” (you need to brush up. Stephen has much more flavor in his insults)
Cobra,
you really don’t know what you are talking about,You claim that my statements, no it odes not validate any of your views. You will never justify use of preferences for blacks for all thte iniquities that blacks had suffered in the past. It seems that inspite of all the titanic preferences that have been accorded to white folks Cobra, apparently it has not prevented their rise. 35 years ago about 65 % of blacks lived in poverty, now it jsut 24 %, the rate for whites is 13 %. Eventually the black rate will catch up with whites Cobra. The black poverty rate probably would have caught up by now with the white poverty rate if there were no race preferences. ” Studying hard, working around the system ” obviously helped Asians prosper better than white inspite of the obstacles, eh Cobra. Those blacks who studied hard and worked inspite of the obstacles beat the system also Cobra, right. Those blacks who became member ‘s of the dean’s list at UC Davis and Auburn inspite of being football team members obviously brought down the black poverty rate and increased the nubmer of blacks with college degrees. So what is wrong with studying hard, being an entrepeneur and working around the system Cobra?
Leo writes:
>>>So what is wrong with studying hard, being an entrepeneur and working around the system Cobra?”
What’s wrong is that you have NEVER suggested on this blog that white people give up THEIR INSTITUTIONAL PREFERENCES and do the same thing. You continuously place the burden on the minority.
What’s up with your self-flaggelation, anyway?
–Cobra