Most of the criticism of Attorney General Holder’s recent speech lamenting that “Black History Month” was separate and unequal has concentrated on his accusation that we (or at least those of us who are pigment-impaired) are a “nation of cowards.”
Now a second wave of criticism has begun to appear, and it is even more devastating than the first. A good example of this second wave is Abigail Thernstrom, who writes in National Review Online: “‘A nation of cowards’” — those attention-grabbing words have been much remarked upon. In fact, the rest of the speech is even more disturbing than that mud-slinging phrase.”
Thernstrom begins with Holder’s charge that “outside the workplace” there is so little racial interaction that “[o]n Saturdays and Sundays” America today “does not, in some ways, differ significantly from the country that existed some 50 years ago.” Really?
A little fact-checking is in order. Saturdays and Sundays looked quite different even less than 50 years ago. In 1964 only 18 percent of whites said they had black friends; the figure today is 87 percent. Raise the bar to “a fairly close personal friend” and the proportion jumps from a mere 9 percent in 1975 to 75 percent in 2005. The share of blacks with close white friends has soared from 21 percent to 82 percent over that same period.
We don’t have much in the way of historical data on interracial dating because, not so long ago, the figure would have been too low for pollsters to bother tabulating. But we do know that in 1963 only 10 percent of whites approved of it. In 2006, however, a Washington Post/Kaiser poll found that 59 percent of black men and 41 percent of black women had dated someone who is white. And 41 percent of white women and 36 percent of white men had crossed the racial-dating divide. Today, the number of black-white marriages is up to almost half a million — still low, but a steep rise over the last 40 years. Presumably, these couples generally spend Saturdays and Sundays together.
Holder says that on the weekends blacks and whites lead separate lives. That’s not so easy to do, given the racial composition of many American neighborhoods. Half a century ago, only 20 percent of whites reported having black neighbors; today the figure is above 60 percent. Blacks, on average, live in communities that are only half black. Do blacks and whites living in close proximity never chat about common concerns — the schools, the traffic, and the life of their kids in and out of school? Do the whites who voted for Barack Obama refuse to talk to the blacks who live on their street?
Another second-waver is Stuart Taylor, in the National Journal. Holder’s speech, he writes, in the form of an open letter to the Attorney General, was “embarrassingly misinformed, hackneyed, and devoid of thoughtful contributions to racial dialogue.” And that was just for starters.
The one point that you developed in a bit of detail in the February 18 speech was especially silly: “Black history is given a separate, and clearly not equal, treatment…. Until black history is included in the standard curriculum in our schools and becomes a regular part of all our lives, it will be viewed as a novelty, relatively unimportant and not as weighty as so-called ‘real’ American history.”
Bosh. The reality is that our high schools and universities are quite clearly focusing disproportionate attention on black history.
The proof includes a poll published last year in which 2,000 high school juniors and seniors in all 50 states were asked to name the 10 most famous Americans, other than presidents and first ladies. The top three finishers were black: Martin Luther King Jr. (67 percent), Rosa Parks (60 percent), and Harriet Tubman (44 percent). So is the only living finisher, Oprah Winfrey (22 percent).
As for the universities, “the almost obsessive emphasis on race, class, and gender in the humanities and social sciences means that, if anything, black history is overrepresented in college history curricula,” in the words of professor KC Johnson, a distinguished scholar of American history based at Brooklyn College….
It’s true that college black-studies courses are often “separate.” But the reason is hardly to slight black history. It is to satisfy demands for hiring more black professors, who tend to specialize in black studies. Some of them also use their platforms to spread the lie that America is still pervaded by white racism.
Moving on, Taylor argues:
Your unelaborated assertion that “this nation has still not come to grips with its racial past” is also way off base, Mr. Attorney General.
To the contrary, this nation has adopted numerous civil-rights laws. It has replaced the once-pervasive regime of discrimination against blacks with a benignly motivated but nonetheless wide-reaching regime of discrimination against whites, euphemistically known as “affirmative action.” It sometimes seems more interested in teaching children about slavery and segregation than about math and science. It has elected a black president.
On affirmative action:
If you really want an honest conversation and if you don’t share the opposition of the vast majority of Americans (including me) to large racial preferences, please clarify specifically why you disagree. Also, please come to grips with the fact that these preferences do very little for truly poor people; that a substantial percentage of them go to middle- and upper-class blacks at the expense of less affluent Asians and whites; and that preferences harm some of their intended beneficiaries.
On this last point, please address the social-science research showing that virtually every selective college and university in the country discriminates so heavily in admissions that most black students cluster toward the bottom of the class and the best black students see their accomplishments stigmatized — and that alarming percentages drop out. And that more than half of entering black law students never pass the bar and never become lawyers. And that many blacks might do much better and get better educations at the less selective schools they would attend if the racial preferences were not so large. And please state whether you support the racial-preference lobby’s efforts to deny researchers access to the empirical databases that would cast more light on the magnitude of these problems
If Holder really wanted an honest conversation, Taylor writes, he would state his views on the large and growing number of black babies born out of wedlock; on underperforming black students who avoid “acting white” and graduate from high school having “learned no more in school than the average white eighth-grader”; on the “dominant cause” of current problems, which is not continuing white racism but rather “the misguided welfare policies and cultural trends that did so much to destroy work incentives, foster irresponsible child-bearing and dependence on the dole, and break up poor families in the latter half of the 20th century.”
Maybe in future comments Thernstrom and Taylor will say what they really think of Holder’s speech.
John writes:
“Maybe in future comments Thernstrom and Taylor will say what they really think of Holder’s speech.
Writing anti-black commentary in a conservative periodical or website is not an act of courage.
For some of them, it’s a prerequisite. What is needed is face to face, 3-D, skin-in-the-game, real-life conversations.
For example:
Thernstrom writes:
“In 1964 only 18 percent of whites said they had black friends; the figure today is 87 percent. Raise the bar to “a fairly close personal friend” and the proportion jumps from a mere 9 percent in 1975 to 75 percent in 2005.”
Where’s the source for these statistics? Where was this poll taken? That’s not congruous with the resegregation occuring in neighborhoods across America. It sounds like a “Bradely effect” to me.
Thernstrom writes:
“Today, the number of black-white marriages is up to almost half a million — still low, but a steep rise over the last 40 years.
Absolutely silly statement. 42 years ago black-white marriages were a felony in most Southern states, which is where the majority of the black population lived in America. I should THINK that since you’re not going to get thrown in jail for it anymore, a few folks might warm up to the notion.
Stuart Taylor Jr writes:
“To the contrary, this nation has adopted numerous civil-rights laws. It has replaced the once-pervasive regime of discrimination against blacks with a benignly motivated but nonetheless wide-reaching regime of discrimination against whites, euphemistically known as “affirmative action.” It sometimes seems more interested in teaching children about slavery and segregation than about math and science. It has elected a black president.”
Taylor makes it sound like all hands were on deck for this change–like they were unanimous decisions. And the kinnard about Affirmative Action discriminating against Whites is hilarious considering the prime beneficiary of AA is the White Woman.
–Cobra
Sad that Cobra continues to believe that all discussion he doesn’t like, even when based on surveys and statistics, is “anti-black commentary.”
And odd, though I suppose not surprising, that he regards the National Journal as a “conservative publication.”
Cobra,
I find it fascinating or may be just a bit curious that you ignored one of Attorney General Holders most egregious errors pointed out by Stuart Taylor, to wit: “Black history is given a separate, and clearly not equal, treatment…. Until black history is included in the standard curriculum in our schools and becomes a regular part of all our lives, it will be viewed as a novelty, relatively unimportant and not as weighty as so-called ‘real’ American history.”
I work in a northwestern suburban Chicago School district and can tell you without fear of contradiction there isn’t a week in the school year that the subject of Black History is not in some way shape or form a part of our class room discussion. The textbook we use is replete with references to individuals, policies and the impact of slavery, and after the Civil War, Black citizens on our society. Our district’s policy is quite clear and explicit on this, saying:
“In all schools, United States history must be taught, including: (a) the principles of representative government, (b) the Constitutions of the U.S. and Illinois, (c) the role of the U.S. in world affairs, (d) the role of labor unions, and (e) the role and contributions of ethnic groups, including but not limited to, the African Americans, Albanians, Asian Americans, Bohemians, Czechs, French, Germans, Hispanics, Hungarians, Irish, Italians, Lithuanians, Polish, Russians, Scots, and Slovakians in the history of this country and State.
In all schools the curriculum includes a unit of instruction on Black History, including the history of the African slave trade, slavery in America, and the vestiges of slavery in this country, as well as the struggles.”
A project that I am involved in has me reviewing a number of state curriculum standards and I have yet to find one that doesn’t clearly and unambiguously require instruction on the trials, tribulations and triumphs of Americans of African heritage. I would challenge you to bring forward facts that will prove me incorrect, and the Attorney General correct on this issue. Just for starters why don’t you review the largest state in the Union, California, peek at the instructions to schools titled, History–Social Science Framework for California Public Schools. I’d wager you will find explicit directions to the schools of the state regarding Black History. Better yet, pick any state.
Then there’s Taylors very well documented observation, “The average black high school graduate has learned no more in school than the average white eighth-grader.” This topic is particularly important and pertinent because until education outcomes between different populations are on a par, disparities in society will not go away. Perhaps in the “face to face, 3-D, skin-in-the-game, real-life conversation” you desire, we could put this topic on the table. By the way since I’m on the subject, this education gap is prevalent in well funded suburban districts and not just urban districts like Chicago Public Schools (CPS). I’ve reviewed every high school in Cook County and the surrounding suburban “collar” counties and there is not one district, regardless of socio-economic status, that doesn’t have a significant Black/White academic achievement gap. Should you choose to inform yourself you can find the data at the Illinois Interactive Report Card hosted by Northern Illinois University. And don’t bring up the shibboleth on funding for urban schools. CPS spends over $11,000 per student, while my “rich” suburban district is funded to the tune of $10,000. Average student funding for the entire state of Illinois is on the order of $9,900.
Just curious about this pronouncement:
Thernstrom writes:
“In 1964 only 18 percent of whites said they had black friends; the figure today is 87 percent. Raise the bar to “a fairly close personal friend” and the proportion jumps from a mere 9 percent in 1975 to 75 percent in 2005.” Where’s the source for these statistics? Where was this poll taken?”
Are you accusing her of fabricating or making up these statistics? Do you really believe a researcher of her repute writing in a nationally read public journal would make up these numbers? Her reputation for honesty and integrity, to the best of my knowledge, has never been questioned. Do you have a basis for doing so?
I’m not sure about your meaning of “skin in the game conversation” but I would argue as a citizen of this country, a taxpayer in this country, as veteran of the Armed Forces and still carrying metal in my body, I have skin in the game and a vested interest in our success, as does every other citizen. I’m also unclear of what you mean by “in your face discussion”, but if you mean venting rage over past wrongs instead of a discussion on actions to solve current problems, then I fear you will be stuck in the rage loop till your dying day.
Joe Heater writes:
“I work in a northwestern suburban Chicago School district and can tell you without fear of contradiction there isn’t a week in the school year that the subject of Black History is not in some way shape or form a part of our class room discussion. The textbook we use is replete with references to individuals, policies and the impact of slavery, and after the Civil War, Black citizens on our society.”
Stuart makes his case as though the idea of Black History being taught is overdone. Read his quote again:
“Bosh. The reality is that our high schools and universities are quite clearly focusing disproportionate attention on black history.”
Now, in high school, back in the day, I took AP History my Senior Year. We never got around to discussing any facet of Black History, slavery or otherwise. I believe that the cirriculum you detailed and outlined, if followed, is definitely a positive step in the right direction.
Now, if you agree with these plans, and the current cirriculi is sufficient, then your debate on this subject shouldn’t be with Eric Holder, or ME…it should be with Stuart Taylor Jr. who by his own words, vehemently opposes them.
The general thesis on Black kids falling behind is nothing you’ll find a debate with me on, either. We might differ on the root causes for the situation, and suggestions for the solutions.
Joe Heater writes on Thernstrom:
“Are you accusing her of fabricating or making up these statistics? Do you really believe a researcher of her repute writing in a nationally read public journal would make up these numbers? Her reputation for honesty and integrity, to the best of my knowledge, has never been questioned. Do you have a basis for doing so?”
First thing. Nobody, and I do mean nobody alive or dead on this planet is beyond criticism or above reproach.
Second, Abigail Thernstrom is Senior Fellow at William Casey’s Bradley funded Manhattan Institute.
The blatant, unapologetic anti-black core philosophy of the founders of the Manhattan Institute, and it’s incessant anti-minority positions, makes it almost impossible for a conscious African-American like me NOT to question Thernstrom on darn near everything she says, writes or does.
Third, there is a first hand, live account of Thernstrom allegedly being “selective” in her use of statistics, and possibly “dishonest” in her explanations.
Joe Heater writes:
“I’m also unclear of what you mean by “in your face discussion”, but if you mean venting rage over past wrongs instead of a discussion on actions to solve current problems, then I fear you will be stuck in the rage loop till your dying day.”
The most important word in Eric Holder’s speech wasn’t “cowards.” It was segregation. His point was that we are a nation that voluntarily self-segregates, and when we do get together, we are “cowards” when it comes to discussing race.
I concur with his position. An “in your face” discussion about race, with the all the cards on the table about the real bottom line, IMHO, segregation, is something that just doesn’t happen often enough. I don’t know how long you’ve been reading Discriminations, but in online postings, I’ve discovered that there are a number of de-facto segregationists running around on this site.
–Cobra
Cobra,
Your right about the fact that I should take up the argument with Attorney General Holder, but given the demonstrably dishonesty in his speech, any one who desires racial reconciliation, which would appear to include yourself, should hold his feet to the fire. We don’t need an Attorney General or any one else in a senior policymaking position throwing unwarranted gasoline on the fire. I don’t see you doing that, at least on this thread. And I guess your last post begs this question, do you think AG Holder was correct in positing that the curriculum and content of our public schools is deficient in it’s coverage of Black Americans?
As far as Stuart Taylors “disproportionate” statement, if you read the next paragraph you will notice that he points to an interesting survey that asks high school junior and seniors to identify ten most famous Americans. The survey results showed that 4 out of 10 of those selected are black. Given the paucity of Black Americans (about 13%) in the population, and until the last 75 years in the public sphere, I believe his case stands up. This is a bit of speculation on my part, but if you ask a the same group of respondents about Jonas Salk, James Watson, Walter Reed or Norman Borlaug the odds are you will get a blank stare despite the fact the work and dedication of these men saved hundreds of millions of humans from an early death or life long physical impairment. My speculation is informed by knowing the content of History and Science classes and not one of these gentlemen is mentioned, we spend nary a moment individuals who are indeed hero’s, people worth emulating. I’m sorry, well no I am really not, but Oprah Winfrey, who’s mentioned in the top ten list of famous Americans, isn’t in the same solar system, much less the same ball park, with Salk, Watson, Reed or Borlaug.
On the segregation issue, voluntary segregation at that, would it be fair to say that you support, or don’t, HBC’s, segregated fraternities, sororities and dorms. Is diversity good for the class room and not so good living facilities? Just questions in the spirit of open dialogue.
Cheers,
Joe Heater
Joe Heater:
” We don’t need an Attorney General or any one else in a senior policymaking position throwing unwarranted gasoline on the fire.”
I disagree. The gasoline throwing is warranted, because the fire has been raging across America for centuries.
From my point of view, those in the path of those flames are not only justified in yelling “fire”, but in setting “backburns” to hold back the raging inferno threatening to consume them.
You’re correct, Joe, in that I’m not being accused of doing that right now on this particular thread, but trust me, you don’t have to search too hard to find those labels attacking me on others.
Joe writes:
“As far as Stuart Taylors “disproportionate” statement, if you read the next paragraph you will notice that he points to an interesting survey that asks high school junior and seniors to identify ten most famous Americans. The survey results showed that 4 out of 10 of those selected are black. Given the paucity of Black Americans (about 13%) in the population, and until the last 75 years in the public sphere, I believe his case stands up.”
But Joe, that’s not because of any high school history curriculum. I’ve said on another blog something that applies to your statement…I believe the 5 most famous people in the entire WORLD are African-Americans. Muhammed Ali, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Will Smith & President Obama. (Michael Jackson weirded his way off the list.) The first three are athletic icons, representing the best of all time in an International sport. Smith is the reigning box office champ. President Obama is the leader of the free world, (much to the chagrin of some of my conservative blogger friends.)
Now, I don’t have a big problem with that, because let’s be honest, heroism, genius, and selfless service to humanity are often done in silence and solitude. If you don’t have a publicist or media handler, those acts will probably go unnoticed.
Joe writes:
“On the segregation issue, voluntary segregation at that, would it be fair to say that you support, or don’t, HBC’s, segregated fraternities, sororities and dorms.
Science tells us that race is a just social construct.
HBC’s were neccessary because historically, Blacks were kept out of “mainstream” colleges and universities. American society did that, not genetics.
Today, HBC’s are integrated. Some even have majority white student bodies. We had one helluva discussion on that here about four years ago.
For the record, I’m an integrationist. I acknowlege that because of freedom of association, people can voluntarily self-segregate. I believe it’s silly, but I also believe that the social construct of race colors nearly every facet of American Society since its enception.
But my point is that nature trumps all. Most African-Americans are on average 17% European genetically. Over 80 million European-Americans,(folks who call themselves “White”) have African DNA streaming through their blood. Hispanic-Americans are run the gamut between the two. in 2050, “Brown Midnight” occurs, and America becomes a majority minority nation. Our very survival depends on Americans getting along with each other.
Whom are we kidding with all this “segregation” stuff besides ourselves?
–Cobra
Cobra,
The gasoline I spoke of is the untruth, falsehood, fiction, misstatement, pick your poison, that Attorney General Holder threw on the fire. That American public education system doesn’t systematically teach our youth about Black History is flat out wrong and for him to use that argument is malfeasance, particularly for a highly placed public official, and not defendable. The American people deserve much, much, better. In this instance, he most certainly doesn’t deserve your defense.
With regard to the poll cited by Taylor asking Jr.’s and Sr.’s who they would select as the most “famous Americans except presidents and first lady’s.” The top three selected are historical figures as were the four cited in my previous post. Almost the only way citizens of this age learn about MLK, Rosa Parks and Harriet Tubman is in the classroom and they are included in the curriculum, formally and informally, while Salk, et al., figures of great importance and inspiration, are not. MJ, Tiger Woods, and others are pop culture figures that appear daily on our TV’s, in our magazines and newspapers, so your comparison is a non sequitur. To repeat, Taylor’s point was about topics and people that received significant attention in the classroom. My daily experience informs me that he is correct in this observation.
Hope to talk to you again on another thread.
Cheers,
Joe Heater