As I write I’ve just been listening to Rev. Wright at the National Press Club. I’ll probably have more to say after he completes his speech and a transcript becomes available, but I was struck enough by something he said early on to blog it now.
The attack on him, he said, was not personal, not against Rev. Wright the man, but “against the black church.”
So, he is the church. Presumably his view that he U.S. government conspired to create AID to commit genocide against blacks and his view that the U.S. deserves what it got on 9/11 are thus part of that church’s catechism.
Bull.
9:35: Wright was asked how he felt about America and being an American, since some have called his sermons unpatriotic. He replied that he’d served in the Marine Corps six years and asked how many years Cheney had served. That was his entire answer.
I saw part of Wright’s speech to the NAACP last night. He said that when desegregation came to schools, white teachers were appalled that black kids were climbing all over their desks. Those white teachers did not realize that that was just an expression of a different learning style. So – our kids can’t sit still. If they can’t sit still, how can they learn anything complex like chemistry or physics or for that matter, anything at all. Does this man think about what he says and the implications? There was a lot more like that. I couldn’t stand to watch all of it.
Wright said the US had bloody hands. I know that Wright would never look at the situation in Darfur or in most of the third world, the neverending rapes, mutilations, and killings, which are part of normal life in so many places, and say anyone there had bloody hands. He would never critisize any non western regime. He looks around the world and finds the US the vilest place. His view of typical of many black people, unfortunately. It is not a viewpoint based on human rights concerns or outrage over injustice. It is only here that he finds anything to object to. It is a viewpoint that says I am on the side of my race and I don’t care how we treat each other, let alone the “other”, as long as we dominate.
Cheney????? What?
Anita – I share your thoughts, but also think Wright’s comments and too many elements of the black community reflect a tragedy of the highest order. Upon hearing Wright’s “brain” theories, postulating that black brains are different than whites, I could not help but think this kind of ignorant racist drivel appears in every way as if it was written by the Klan in furtherance of their own hate filled visions. And in saying this, I tested my own creases to see if I am engaging in hyperbole – but sadly, I am persuaded I am not – Wright’s statements and beliefs differ little from the Klan, a group most look upon as irrevocably ignorant and dangerous. And unfortunately I have the same visceral reaction I when I channel surf on to a MTV “sucka free” rap video – as incredibly misogynist and saturated as they are with negative stereotypes and themes, including glorification of the prison culture – one not familiar with popular music could conclude that hate groups are producing them as an exquisite form of propaganda to discredit black people. The real loser in this pattern of ignorance and hate is not Obama – although surely he wishes the good Reverend would now go away and never be heard from again – no – the real losers are the people of all races and creeds who support Wright and his ignorant, hate filled rants. People who hate end up hating themselves – an absolute tragedy, and a sure fire way not to succeed or be happy.
“Wright was asked how he felt about America and being an American, since some have called his sermons unpatriotic. He replied that he’d served in the Marine Corps six years and asked how many years Cheney had served. That was his entire answer.”
Hmmm, if this is Mr. Wright’s definition of patriotism, I wonder who Mr. Wright would deem to be more patriotic, Barack Obama or John McCain? What? No one at the National Press Club challenged him on his statement? How surprising. Maybe they were to busy applauding to think up challenging questions.
On the Cheney non-answer, I would only observe that Benedict Arnold who was grievously wounded at Saratoga also served longer than Cheney did.
Anita writes:
>>>”It is only here that he finds anything to object to. It is a viewpoint that says I am on the side of my race and I don’t care how we treat each other, let alone the “other”, as long as we dominate.”
I think you have American History and Society turned upside down on its head.
Since when are African-Americans “dominating?”
Perhaps you’re not up on current events. Maybe that’s it. I don’t recall Reverend Wright ordering extraordinary renditions, torture, illegal wiretaps or pre-emptive invasions of sovereign countries that NEVER attacked us.
I don’t recall it, because that’s NOT within his power as a PREACHER in a CHURCH.
Hello?
Anita writes:
>>>”Wright said the US had bloody hands. I know that Wright would never look at the situation in Darfur or in most of the third world, the neverending rapes, mutilations, and killings, which are part of normal life in so many places, and say anyone there had bloody hands.”
You don’t have to go to Darfur to see death, Anita.
>>>”A new study estimates that more than 1 million Iraqis have died because of the war in Iraq since the US-led invasion of the country in 2003.
Data compiled by London-based Opinion Research Business (ORB) and its research partner in Iraq, the Independent Institute for Administration and Civil Society Studies (IIACSS) reveals a fifth of Iraqi households lost at least one family member between March 2003 and August 2007 due to the conflict.
The study based its findings on survey work involving the face-to-face questioning of 2,414 Iraqi adults aged 18 or above, and the last complete census in Iraq in 1997, which indicated a total of 4.05 million households.
Respondents were asked how many members of their household, if any, had died as a result of the violence in the country since 2003, and not because of natural causes.
“We now estimate that the death toll between March 2003 and August 2007 is likely to have been in the order of 1,033,000,” ORB said in a statement.
The margin of error for the survey was 1.7 per cent, making the estimated range between 946,000 and 1.12 million fatalities.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/31/2151041.htm
willowglenn writes:
>>>”Upon hearing Wright’s “brain” theories, postulating that black brains are different than whites, I could not help but think this kind of ignorant racist drivel appears in every way as if it was written by the Klan in furtherance of their own hate filled visions. And in saying this, I tested my own creases to see if I am engaging in hyperbole – but sadly, I am persuaded I am not – Wright’s statements and beliefs differ little from the Klan, a group most look upon as irrevocably ignorant and dangerous.”
Except, Rev. Wright didn’t come up with this theory:
Dr. Janice E. Hale did, as he pointed out in the speech.
http://ted.coe.wayne.edu/ted/faculty/hale.html
And, you know something interesting, willowglenn– Reverend Wright aside for a second–THIS blog, and some of the posters on this blog, especially one who uses a “vowel” as a screen name EXHAUSTIVELY posts about the alleged INTELLECTUAL INFERIORITY of African-Americans, when it comes to standardized test scores. They then try to IMPLY that there is no “nurture” explanation for this, so that the logical conclusion must be something genetic in origin.
Funny thing is, Willow…
I don’t hear a PEEP out of you when they do this.
I’m not going to ask you this as an insult, because we’ve had very respectful and productive discussions.
But if you concur with several posters here on Discriminations, and believe that Blacks are genetically inferior when it comes to intelligence, then what possible problem could you have with Dr. Hale’s theory on left-brain/right brain thought processing?
As for Dick Cheney, something tells me he took those five deferrments for the good of the nation and his fellow troops.
You REALLY want THIS guy walking around with automatic weapons?
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:_JQiMH2xPbufrM:http://www.airamerica.com/
–Cobra
Cobra: Is it your understanding that Americans are killing all those Iraqis? And that they were living in peace and harmony before we came along?
Also: You don’t buy the stuff about black people’s intelligence being different when it comes from The Bell Curve so why buy it from Wright?
I remember when the schools desegregated in my hometown in Mississippi – I was in elementary school at the time. The black kids weren’t climbing all over their nonplussed white teachers, they sat appropriately at their desks like the white kids did. If a white person told that nonsensical story about school desegregation in Philadelphia wouldn’t you condemn it? Of course you would.
I’d like to see you develop a little more independence in your thinking, Cobra. Step out from your well-beaten path a little bit and think some new thoughts. You can disagree with Wright and still be an authentic black person – an authentic angry black person if that’s what you want to be. Isn’t it a liberating thought, that you don’t have to defend anyone’s nonsense just because he says he’s on your side?
Cobra said,
[And, you know something interesting, willowglenn– Reverend Wright aside for a second–THIS blog, and some of the posters on this blog, especially one who uses a “vowel” as a screen name EXHAUSTIVELY posts about the alleged INTELLECTUAL INFERIORITY of African-Americans, when it comes to standardized test scores. They then try to IMPLY that there is no “nurture” explanation for this, so that the logical conclusion must be something genetic in origin.]
Cobra, there you go again, flinging the HORSE MANURE.
Reread the following and the ENTIRE THREAD with my posts. You are a frigging LIAR and take my posts out of context, twisting and spinning. You are full of horse manure. You have been pwned by yours truly, “E”.
http://www.discriminations.us/2008/02/the_harvard_crimson_defends_di.html#comments
The Harvard Crimson Defends Discrimination
Cobra asked:
“Why don’t you offer STATISTICS that say that Carribean and African Immigrants are less successful than Hmong, Vietnamese and Cambodians?”
============================
Hey Cobra,
The correct spelling is “Caribbean”, and not “Carribean” as you had written.
I did not say this, “Carribean and African Immigrants are less successful than Hmong, Vietnamese and Cambodians?”. You are again a LIAR and misquote me. You are full of HORSE MANURE. YOU ARE LYING with your HORSE MANURE AND SPIN ON WHAT I HAD SAID.
I said,
“Just examine the performance of Asian Americans in the POOREST neighborhoods in America, especially in the Hispanic and black ghettos, where Asian Americans live side by side with blacks and Hispanics in the major cities, such as LA, Detroit or NYC, and examine the performance of the students on the NYC Public School Reports for each school, on test scores, grades, all academic achievement measures, graduation rates, and attendance disaggregated by race and ethnicity, and you will find that the poorest Asian Americans OUTPERFORMED blacks, on the average, almost without exception in every school in NYC’s poorest districts, while living in the same neighborhoods as blacks, in the same apartment buildings with the same lack of economic resources. These poorest of Asian Americans,which include Cambodians and other S.E. Asians, EVEN OUTPERFORMED THE RICHEST MOST AFFLUENT AND EDUCATED BLACKS, ON THE AVERAGE, which include the black immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean, admitted with race preferences to Harvard and the elites.”
I gave you stats for the entire group of the poorest Asian Americans which include all S.E. Asians, East Asians, and South Asians, Cambodians, Hmongs, etc..
These stats are found in the NYC Report Cards on Performance for every single school in NYC, including the ones in the poorest districts. The performance of students in each school is disaggregated by race and ethnicity according to test scores, graduation rates, attendance and other metrics of performance.
I DID NOT SAY that the poor and uneducated HMONGS, as a subgroup of Asians, outperformed the most affluent and educated subgroup of African immigrants. Poor Hmongs, as a subgroup DO NOT OUT PERFORM blacks from rich affluent black immigrants, as a subgroup. But then again, WHAT IS YOUR POINT, COBRA???
The entire group of the poorest and least educated Asian Americans comprised of these subgroups [S.E. Asians (Cambodians, Hmongs, Vietnamese) East Asians, Far East Asians, and South Asians], as a total demographic group, out performed the total demographic group of blacks, which include all economic classes of blacks.
Now, here is the MOST GLARING AND DISTURBING FACT:
The fact that is well known as the Black-White and the Black-Asian Test Score Gaps, and that you refuse to accept is on testing, the blacks from the richest and most affluent economic class with family incomes of above $75K (1995 dollars) and parents with college and graduate degrees, under perform and underachieve or SCORE LOWER when compared to the poorest Asian Americans (and whites) from families under the poverty level of less than $20K (1995 levels) and parents with less than high school educations.
This IS THE BLACK-WHITE AND BLACK-ASIAN TEST SCORE GAPS THAT HAVE BECOME EVEN WIDER EVERY YEAR!!!
It is independent of economic class, because for the same economic class and parental education, blacks perform LOWER on testing and metrics for educational achievement than Asian Americans and whites.
THIS IS THE GAP THAT CANNOT BE CLOSED WITH RACE BASED AA. RACE BASED AA DOES NOT WORK, BECAUSE THESE GAPS HAVE BECOME EVEN WIDER OVER THE LAST FEW DECADES WITH RACE BASE AA. The stats for this fact are POSTED on this thread, and you either can’t read or in complete denial with your horse manure.
The Hmongs are grouped with the Asian American DEMOGRAPHIC GROUP in elite college admissions and do not receive race base AA, and in fact they are also discriminated against, as are the other Asians in the group, in favor of rich, affluent under performing, underachieving and underscoring immigrant blacks from Africa and the Caribbean, who are admitted with lowered standards, relative to the rest of the admitted class, because of race based AA, solely based on the immutable characteristic of skin color.
Again, Asian Americans are not asking for preferential treatment in admissions, as you are asking for in admissions for even rich affluent under performing, underachieving and under deserving immigrant blacks and their off-springs, with lowered admissions standards as well as a lowered holistic criteria based on your own black skin. Why should these blacks even deserve to be beneficiaries of race based Affirmation Action, a program which was not even targeted for them, but for the descendants of African American slaves, who were the actual victims of their white slave owners, Jim Crow and their own black African brothers in Africa, who sold them as slaves?
This is DISCRIMINATION against other groups, favoring undeserving rich under performing, underachieving and under scoring immigrant blacks from the Caribbean amd Africa because they recieve race based AA by being admitted with lowered standards relative to the rest of the admitted class.
ANSWER THE QUESTION!!! YOU CAN’T.
====================
Here are the statistics:
Hey Cobra, how do you explain this one?
Bottom Line:
1. Black children from the wealthiest families have mean SAT scores lower than white and Asian children from families below the poverty line.
2. Black children of parents with graduate degrees have lower SAT scores than white and Asian children of parents with a high-school diploma or less.
THESE FACTS ARE SAD AND PITIFUL FOR THOSE WHO REFUSE TO ACCEPT THE THE TRUTH. THIS IS ONE OF OUR COUNTRY’S MOST URGENT PROBLEMS, YET COBRA IS IN DENIAL!
IN 2003, ONLY 72 BLACKS SCORED OVER 1500 on the SAT I Math and Verbal (combined) test.
Among the overall student population, 13,897 earned scores higher than 1500.
Source: The College Board
http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html
Almost No Blacks Among the Top Scorers
on the Scholastic Assessment Test
Bottom Line from the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education:
Thus, the huge and growing gap in SAT scores, and particularly the scores at the highest levels, becomes one of the nation’s most urgent problems.
Explaining the Black-White and Black-Asian SAT Gap
There are a number of reasons that are being advanced to explain the continuing and growing black-white SAT scoring gap. Sharp differences in family incomes are a major factor. Always there has been a direct correlation between family income and SAT scores. For both blacks and whites, as income goes up, so do test scores. In 2005, 28 percent of all black SAT test takers were from families with annual incomes below $20,000. Only 5 percent of white test takers were from families with incomes below $20,000. At the other extreme, 7 percent of all black test takers were from families with incomes of more than $100,000. The comparable figure for white test takers is 27 percent.
But there is a major flaw in the thesis that income differences explain the racial gap. Consider these three observable facts from The College Board’s 2005 data on the SAT:
• Whites from families with incomes of less than $10,000 had a mean SAT score of 993. This is 129 points higher than the national mean for all blacks.
• Whites from families with incomes below $10,000 had a mean SAT test score that was 61 points higher than blacks whose families had incomes of between $80,000 and $100,000.
• Blacks from families with incomes of more than $100,000 had a mean SAT score that was 85 points below the mean score for whites from all income levels, 139 points below the mean score of whites from families at the same income level, and 10 points below the average score of white students from families whose income was less than $10,000.
====================
Other STATS:
Are found in the NYC Report Cards on Performance for every single school in NYC, including the ones in the poorest districts. The performance of students in each school is disaggregated by race and ethnicity according to test scores, graduation rates, attendance and other metrics of performance, and income levels (qualifying free lunch in school).
====================
More Stats:
Please read the book:
http://www.brookings.edu/press/Books/1998/blckwhit.aspx
The Black-White Test Score Gap
Christopher Jencks and Meredith Phillips, eds., Brookings Institution Press 1998 c. 536pp.
Full Text Online
T[he test score gap between blacks and whites—on vocabulary, reading, and math tests, as well as on tests that claim to measure scholastic aptitude and intelligence—is large enough to have far-reaching social and economic consequences. In their introduction to this book, Christopher Jencks and Meredith Phillips argue that eliminating the disparity would dramatically reduce economic and educational inequality between blacks and whites. Indeed, they think that closing the gap would do more to promote racial equality than any other strategy now under serious discussion. The book offers a comprehensive look at the factors that contribute to the test score gap and discusses options for substantially reducing it.]
[Although significant attempts have been made over the past three decades to shrink the test score gap, including increased funding for predominantly black schools, desegregation of southern schools, and programs to alleviate poverty, the median black American still scores below 75 percent of American whites on most standardized tests. The book brings together recent evidence on some of the most controversial and puzzling aspects of the test score debate, including the role of test bias, heredity, and family background. It also looks at how and why the gap has changed over the past generation, reviews the educational, psychological, and cultural explanations for the gap, and analyzes its educational and economic consequences.]
[The authors demonstrate that traditional explanations account for only a small part of the black-white test score gap. They argue that this is partly because traditional explanations have put too much emphasis on racial disparities in economic resources, both in homes and in schools, and on demographic factors like family structure. They say that successful theories will put more emphasis on psychological and cultural factors, such as the way black and white parents teach their children to deal with things they do not know or understand, and the way black and white children respond to the same classroom experiences. Finally, they call for large-scale experiments to determine the effects of schools’ racial mix, class size, ability grouping, and other policies.]
Again, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT, Cobra????
There should be no great mystery about Asian achievement. It has to do with hard work and dedication to higher education, and belonging to a culture that stresses professional success.
==================
More recent data of this nature is not released by the College Board to the general public any more because this data is racially sensitive and *politically incorrect*, but it is the damn truth.
http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/testing.htm#APPENDIX%20B
More SAT data may be found in Appendix B. There, you will discover that Asians mostly sit on top of the heap; that whites, Mexican Americans and blacks follow in that order. Some details prove interesting. For example, whites enjoy a verbal advantage over Asians that disappears at high levels of income and social advantage. Regrettably, the College Board no longer discloses these data. In 1996, they stopped publishing performance by income and parental education disaggregated by race and ethnicity
THE BLACK-WHITE/ASIAN TEST SCORE GAP EXISTS IN ALMOST ALL OF TESTING, NOT ONLY IN THE SAT TESTS. IT EXISTS IN THE MCAT, LSAT, GRE, MCAT, STATE BAR EXAMS, USMLE (US Medical License Exam), ETC..
[Note from JSR: E’s post was an excellent article by Heather Mac Donald in the City Journal. I would prefer not to post whole articles here, but it is excellent and I encourage you to read it.:
http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0429hm.html
Heather Mac Donald
Poisonous “Authenticity”
Jeremiah Wright draws on a long line of Afrocentric charlatans.
29 April 2008
I may post something on it later. Or I may not….]
The playing field will be level when people like Cobra are no longer angry that others are more productive in society than them.
Laura writes:
>>>”Cobra: Is it your understanding that Americans are killing all those Iraqis? And that they were living in peace and harmony before we came along?”
My understanding is that since the US began this catastrophe in March 2003, there are reports that over ONE MILLION Iraqis have died unneccessarily.
Does that mean I “hate America” if I bring those reports up? Or do we still have the right to criticize the policies of politicians in elected office?
Laura writes:
>>>”Also: You don’t buy the stuff about black people’s intelligence being different when it comes from The Bell Curve so why buy it from Wright?”
I don’t neccessarily agree with Dr. Hale or Rev. Wright on many things.
That being said, I’ll be mule-kicked in the shins before I’ll allow a free pass to conservatives who run down Black intelligence at every opportunity, BUT then cry in righteous indignation when an African-American not on THEIR payroll theorizes and postulates on the issue.
I will call shennanigans on that every time.
Speaking of which…
E, I want to personally thank you for appearing on cue in this blog thread, and re-pasting YET AGAIN a clear illustration of the point I am trying to make.
The Willowglenn-Response-to-E-Clock:
2 days : 9 hours : 13 minutes
–Cobra
You have not made any points with your horse manure. You can’t answer any of my questions and you have yet to post a credible response.
Again, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT, Cobra????
There should be no great mystery about Asian achievement or the achievement of any other group for that matter. It has to do with hard work and dedication to higher education, and belonging to a culture that stresses professional success, with making any excuses.
CORRECTION:
There should be no great mystery about Asian achievement or the achievement of any other group for that matter. It has to do with hard work and dedication to higher education, and belonging to a culture that stresses professional success, WITHOUT making any excuses.
Cobra:
One million Iraqis dying does not equal Americans killing them. Our hands are not bloody from this, except in that the hatred that these people have FOR EACH OTHER was underestimated by the American gov’t when we went in. I think “ask yourself why they hate you” distracted from the truth, which is that they hate everybody. We are not killing them. They are killing each other. And life in Iraq under Hussein was no piece of cake, either. Please remind yourself of this story before you tell me we should have left that monster in charge.
Did you miss Anita’s point entirely? She is saying that Wright doesn’t want to fix problems, he wants to put black people on top. Not that they are on top, but that he wants them there, and that comes before actual human rights concerns. And she’s right. He wants his church to get credit for its good works in the neighborhoods, but gives the American government no credit for the billions of dollars in famine relief, disease eradication, agricultural assistance, and so forth, that we’ve spent over the last several decades to help people around the world. Relieving suffering is not what he’s about. Getting black people on top is what he’s about, period. Then what makes him different from any other racist.
How many conservatives do you hear or see running down black intelligence at every opportunity? Besides E, that is, whose long-winded data dumps are reminiscent of yours in the old days and make me glad to have a scroll-down key. You’re letting E stand in for conservatism, and that’s intellectually lazy. It was George Bush who talked about the “soft bigotry of low expectations” when he had NCLB break out test scores for minority kids so that schools couldn’t hide them among the white kids’ scores and would be forced to do something about educating those kids. If Bush thought black kids were just genetically stupid, why would he have bothered? Please keep an open mind about this stuff. You’re shoving people, and ideas, into pigeonholes.
Laura writes:
>>>”One million Iraqis dying does not equal Americans killing them. Our hands are not bloody from this, except in that the hatred that these people have FOR EACH OTHER was underestimated by the American gov’t when we went in.”
Laura, of COURSE these people are dead due to the actions of the US Government.
>>>”Today, available statistics about the consequences of the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq speak of misery and chaos nearly unimaginable to most U.S. people. One out of six Iraqis has been displaced from their homes. A March 2007 report from Save the Children, a US based NGO, stated that 122,000 Iraqi children didn’t reach their fifth birthdays in the year 2005 alone. UNAMI, the United Nations Assistance Mission in Iraq, in its most recently issued report on humanitarian conditions in Iraq, stated that 54% of Iraqis live on less than $1 per day, including 15% who are forced to live on less than fifty cents per day. 70% of Iraq’s people lack access to potable water. 43 % of Iraqi children under age five suffer a form of malnourishment, with 23% suffering from chronic malnourishment and 8% suffering acute malnourishment. 40% of Iraq’s population are children under 15 years of age…”
http://electroniciraq.net/news/opeds/Weary_of_War_Don_t_Collaborate-3313.shtml
And I’m not just “Bush-bashing.” This misery was heaped upon them by the Clinton and Pappy Bush Administrations as well:
>>>”In 1991, the United States deliberately targeted, bombed and destroyed Iraq’s infrastructure–in particular its water treatment plants, its electrical plants, and its electrical power grid. This damage was exacerbated over the next thirteen years as the U.S. and UK insisted that the UN maintain brutally punitive economic sanctions that prevented Iraq from substantively rebuilding and caused further decay and debilitation in every sector of Iraq’s infrastructure. The sanctions also caused widespread disease, starvation and impoverishment–directly contributing toward the deaths of over one half million children under age five.”
http://electroniciraq.net/news/opeds/Weary_of_War_Don_t_Collaborate-3313.shtml
So to say that the US Government had nothing to do with these deaths is patently false.
Laura writes:
>>>”And life in Iraq under Hussein was no piece of cake, either. Please remind yourself of this story before you tell me we should have left that monster in charge.”
Saddam Hussein was a very bad guy. You’ll get no debate from me on that. But Saddam Hussein was a Secular leader, and the grandest irony of them all is that the US Government deposed this guy, and paved the way for a fundamentalist Islamic Shia theocracy with close ties to Iran.
Now, if that was your idea of what the goal should’ve been, fine.
Laura writes:
>>>”Did you miss Anita’s point entirely?”
Not at all. I understand Anita thoroughly. In her post, and many she has written before, her continuing theme is White/American infallability and Black/liberal deficiency.
In her writings, almost anything done in the course of American History can be excused or explained away by citing something similiarly bad occuring elsewhere.
Laura writes:
>>>”Besides E, that is, whose long-winded data dumps are reminiscent of yours in the old days and make me glad to have a scroll-down key. You’re letting E stand in for conservatism, and that’s intellectually lazy.”
Well, I’ll freely admit that I get long-winded from time to time. One thing I don’t do is cut and paste the SAME EXACT THING time and time again.
Laura writes:
>>>”It was George Bush who talked about the “soft bigotry of low expectations” when he had NCLB break out test scores for minority kids so that schools couldn’t hide them among the white kids’ scores and would be forced to do something about educating those kids. If Bush thought black kids were just genetically stupid, why would he have bothered? Please keep an open mind about this stuff. You’re shoving people, and ideas, into pigeonholes.”
Oh no, Bush did this based upon POLITICS. He knows that the teacher’s Union is intractably bonded to the Democrats, so NCLB is a broadside attack at them. If you base funding on performance, the schools in the worst neighborhoods (which tend to be racially segregated from whites) are at the most risk, and those who ultimately suffer are those racially segregated children. Children in more affluent neighborhoods have more resources in and OUT of school to produce children who can score high enough to balance the test score results.
I believe it’s just that cynnical.
–Cobra
Cobra said,
“Well, I’ll freely admit that I get long-winded from time to time. One thing I don’t do is cut and paste the SAME EXACT THING time and time again.”
One thing that you don’t admit is that you can’t answer the questions which I had posted, mainly because you are lying through your teeth and in complete denial. You are intellectually dishonest. You don’t even acknowledge the existence of the Black-White/Asian Test Score Gap as DEFINED BY MY POSTS AND SCHOLARS. We don’t know what the causes of this GAP are and more research needs to be done in order to narrow this GAP and close it, if it can be closed at all. Many research scholars think the GAP is caused by the culture differences between the races, but for one to even suggest that black culture is an impediment is to elicit charges of racism from the flaming race preference and race based AA advocates.
I am neither a liberal nor a conservative and I do not pigeon-hole myself with labels.
BTW, no one ever mentioned “intellectual superiority/inferiority of any race”,but you, Cobra. You are a fraud.
While you are commenting on , “E”, you have completely avoided the issues that were presented via my comprehensive posts, pointing out facts backed by academic research.
Again, there should be no great mystery about Asian achievement or the achievement of any other group for that matter. It has to do with hard work and dedication to higher education, and belonging to a culture that stresses professional success, WITHOUT making any excuses or whining and complaining incessantly on a blog.
Cobra, I looked at your source (electroniciraq.net) and am underwhelmed by its lack of bias.
Let me ask you something. Supposed that you had some white next-door neighbors whose house burned down. You went next door, being the nice person you no doubt are IRL, and helped them dig through and find their stuff, maybe even bought their dinner and helped them find a place to sleep until they could figure out what to do. Then later you overheard them making racist remarks about any time a black person pretends to help anybody, they’d better count their spoons when he leaves, and even reminded about what their neighbor Cobra had done for them, they denied that you, Cobra, had done it for any reason other than to see what you could steal. Would you not think that they were evil for imputing evil motives to your well-meaning behavior? I hope you would. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I think it is morally wrong of you to assume that President Bush had only cynical reasons for NCLB. Really. If you’re going to be mistaken about that kind of thing, it’s better to err on the side of giving the benefit of the doubt and risking being made a fool of, than on the side of imputing evil motives to a person doing good works and risk being a bad person.
E writes:
>>>”One thing that you don’t admit is that you can’t answer the questions which I had posted, mainly because you are lying through your teeth and in complete denial. You are intellectually dishonest.”
Stop it, E. I’ve answered your questions in the past. You just don’t LIKE the answers I’ve provided. And you can’t try to shine up your “anti-black intelligence/Asian-master race agenda” now that somebody’s openly calling you on it. It just doesn’t wash.
Laura writes:
>>>”Let me ask you something. Supposed that you had some white next-door neighbors whose house burned down. You went next door, being the nice person you no doubt are IRL, and helped them dig through and find their stuff, maybe even bought their dinner and helped them find a place to sleep until they could figure out what to do.”
Well, if I was a politician, and doing this with cameras rolling in hopes that this kind of activity would get people to vote for me, those people would have every right to be cynical and question my motivations. That’s the whole principle behind the photo op.
Now, do I think President Bush is “evil?” No. I think he’s a lazy student born into privilege with a heightened sense of entitlement and incuriosity. For a person whose decision literally affects life on the planet, that’s a dangerous concoction, IMHO.
However, I honestly believe there are people in Bush’s circle that are poisonous, and their influence on an incurious mind have had a demonstrably disastrous effects on our economy, foreign policy and standing in the world.
–Cobra
Cobra said,
“Stop it, E. I’ve answered your questions in the past. You just don’t LIKE the answers I’ve provided. And you can’t try to shine up your “anti-black intelligence/Asian-master race agenda” now that somebody’s openly calling you on it. It just doesn’t wash.”
Hey Cobra,
No one ever mentioned “intellectual superiority/inferiority of any race”, but you, Cobra. You are a fraud.
You are a racist, since you, Cobra, are asking for race preferences and preferential treatment for blacks by playing the race card, which will be the cause of your quick demise. Jews and Asian Americans are NOT ASKING for preferential treatment based on race, religion and ethnicity, even though they faced prejudice and hatred from you and your ilk. That’s the difference.
You have not provided a single credible response to any of my queries.
Many research scholars on education think the GAP is caused by the cultural differences between the races, but for one to even suggest that black culture is an impediment is to elicit charges of racism from the flaming race preference and race based AA advocates such as yourself.
You have not made any points with your horse manure. You can’t answer any of my questions and you have yet to post a credible response.
While you are commenting on “E”, you have completely avoided the issues that were presented via my comprehensive posts, pointing out facts backed by academic research.
You have yet to post a reputable response to any of my postings, and you have been PWNED many times over. I am tired of you. Whom do you think you are kidding?
Please read the book:
http://www.brookings.edu/press/Books/1998/blckwhit.aspx
The Black-White Test Score Gap
Christopher Jencks and Meredith Phillips, eds., Brookings Institution Press 1998 c. 536pp.
[The test score gap between blacks and whites—on vocabulary, reading, and math tests, as well as on tests that claim to measure scholastic aptitude and intelligence—is large enough to have far-reaching social and economic consequences. In their introduction to this book, Christopher Jencks and Meredith Phillips argue that eliminating the disparity would dramatically reduce economic and educational inequality between blacks and whites. Indeed, they think that closing the gap would do more to promote racial equality than any other strategy now under serious discussion. The book offers a comprehensive look at the factors that contribute to the test score gap and discusses options for substantially reducing it.]
Again, there should be no great mystery about Asian achievement or the achievement of any other group for that matter. It has to do with hard work and dedication to higher education, and belonging to a culture that stresses professional success, WITHOUT making any excuses or whining and complaining incessantly on a blog.
Hey Cobra,
The following is a LANDMARK case to ensure that students are never again classified by race for admissions.
http://www.asianamericanlegal.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=34
The San Francisco Ho Case
Ho v. San Francisco Unified School District, a class action filed in 1994, forced the San Francisco school district to stop its practice of classifying students by race for assignment to the city’s K-12 schools. San Francisco’s unconstitutional practice prevented many Chinese American children from attending their own neighborhood schools. The case was ultimately a success, bringing a halt to the school district’s use of race.
Under the challenged admissions program, nine ethnic groups were arbitrarily defined, including “Chinese.” Members of at least four of the groups were required to be present at each school; and no one group could represent more than 45 percent of the student body at any regular school or 40 percent at any alternative school. The promotion of racial diversity, and not the remediation of past racial discrimination, was the only real purpose. By the time of the Ho challenge, the school district had enlarged the original nine arbitrary racial categories to thirteen equally arbitrary categories to take into account the growing prominence of additional racial groups in the district.
The burden of San Francisco’s racial balancing program fell heaviest on students identified as “Chinese.” With a long history in San Francisco, over the years, Chinese Americans had come to constitute the city’s largest identifiable ethnic group. Accordingly, in the San Francisco school district’s student assignment process, a child identified as Chinese was most likely to be “capped out”—that is, barred because the child’s racial quota was exceeded—at desired schools and forced to attend a non-chosen school, often far from his or her neighborhood.
The named plaintiffs’ situations amply illustrate the discrimination meted out to Chinese American schoolchildren by school officials:
• Brian Ho was five years old at the time the suit started. In 1994, he was turned away from his two neighborhood kindergartens because the schools had accepted the maximum allowed percentage of “Chinese” schoolchildren. He was assigned to a school in another neighborhood.
• Patrick Wong, then fourteen years old, applied for admission to Lowell High School in 1994. He was rejected because his index score was below the minimum required for Chinese American applicants. However, his score was high enough that he would have been admitted to Lowell had he been a member of any other racial or ethnic group recognized in the consent decree. He was rejected at two other high schools because such schools had also accepted the maximum number of schoolchildren of Chinese descent. When he tried to apply to a fourth high school, a newly established academic high school, his mother was told that all spaces for Chinese Americans were “filled” even though spaces for applicants of other racial or ethnic groups were still available.
• The family of Hillary Chen, then eight years old, moved from north of Golden Gate Park to a neighbor-hood south of the park in December 1993. Hilary was not allowed to transfer into any of three elementary schools near her new home because all three schools had accepted the maximum number of Chinese Ameri-can schoolchildren.
Filed in 1994 in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, the case was bitterly fought through the courts for five years, including an interlocutory appeal to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals which established that the school district’s racial assignment plan would have to be examined under strict scrutiny—a test both the district court and the Ninth Circuit indicated it would almost certainly fail. See Ho v. San Francisco Unified Sch. Dist., 147 F.3d 854 (9th Cir. 1998). Finally, the defendants capitulated and agreed to a settlement by which they stopped their use of race. See Ho v. San Francisco Unified Sch. Dist., 59 F. Supp. 2d 1021 (N.D. Cal. 1999).
Since that time, members of the Asian American Legal Foundation have carefully monitored the student assignment plans used by the San Francisco Unified School District, to ensure that students are never again classified by race for admission to the city’s schools.
Hey Cobra,
Past or present racism by the “power structure” against racial and ethnic minorities IS NOT a moral or legal justification for the use of race preferences, racial preferential treatment, or race based Affirmative Action, which is inherently RACIST and ILLEGAL, according to the US Constitution with the 14th Amendment and the 1964 Civil Rights Act. I have told you this before on this blog a number of times, but you are either:
1. too thick, dense, obtuse, or plain stupid, lacking the mental capacity, to understand this, or
2. you are intelligent enough to understand this point, but you are in complete denial, or
3. you are intelligent enough to comprehend this point and are fully aware that your stance is a racist one, simply because you are a racist hypocrite, who is a single self-identified African American with paranoid ideations, delusions and hallucinations exhibiting a full blown clinical example of a psychotic individual out of touch with reality in desperate need of help with your RACIST ranting and raving on this blog.
I would vote for #3 in your case, Cobra.
E,
The more you post, the more you reinforce my arguments. Look at your last post:
>>>”but you are either:
1. too thick, dense, obtuse, or plain stupid, lacking the mental capacity, to understand this, or
2. you are intelligent enough to understand this point, but you are in complete denial, or
3. you are intelligent enough to comprehend this point and are fully aware that your stance is a racist one, simply because you are a racist hypocrite, who is a single self-identified African American with paranoid ideations, delusions and hallucinations exhibiting a full blown clinical example of a psychotic individual out of touch with reality in desperate need of help with your RACIST ranting and raving on this blog.”
You’re basically saying that any African-American who doesn’t subscribe to your “African-American inferiority propaganda” is either stupid, in denial, or should be committed to a sanitarium for observation.
…
Not even Stephen or Mikey makes this kind of hyperbole.
I might end up writing a song about you, E. A cartoon couldn’t fully capture the depths of your work here.
–Cobra
Cobra said,
“You’re basically saying that any African-American who doesn’t subscribe to your “African-American inferiority propaganda” is either stupid, in denial, or should be committed to a sanitarium for observation.”
Nope.
MORE NONSENSE from a single self-identified African American NAMED COBRA with paranoid ideations, delusions and hallucinations exhibiting a full blown clinical example of a psychotic individual out of touch with reality in desperate need of help with his RACIST ranting and raving on this blog!!!!
You have yet to post a single credible response to any of my posts.
Cobra justifies his ranting and raving for preferential treatment based solely on the color of his black skin by stating, “In all honesty, I don’t think the true racist takes the time to identify the exact nation of origin or creed of those he or she thinks is inferior, and in a nation mired in ignorance, that’s one of the reasons I would maintain the current Affirmative Action programs, flawed as they may be.”
Cobra, whom do you think you are kidding? You are SURELY not for real. You are the “true” racist whom you speak of by virtue of your statement above. Look in the mirror, Cobra.
Cobra, please answer these questions.
1. Why should under performing and underachieving rich affluent immigrant blacks or off-springs of immigrant blacks, mainly from Africa and the Caribbean, receive RACIAL PREFERENCES and be beneficiaries of race based AA in our elite schools by being admitted with lowered standards (test scores and GPAs) and a lowered holistic criteria BASED SOLELY ON THE COLOR OF THEIR SKINS??
THIS IS THE CASE AT HARVARD COLLEGE, and the Ivies, where over 70% of the blacks are from the middle to upper economic classes admitted under race based AA. The vast majority of these blacks are admitted with lowered admissions standards compared to the rest of the admitted class at Harvard (or any of the elite schools using racial preferences) and they are not the descendants of the African American slaves for whom race based AA was originally intended to benefit.
2. WHY SHOULD THESE ADMITTED BLACKS (rich affluent underperforming and underachieving) DESERVE TO BE ADMITTED OVER A DIRT POOR CHINESE AMERICAN BORN LIVING IN CHINATOWN, USA OR IN THE SAME BLACK AMERICAN GHETTO, AND WHO OUTPERFORMS HIS BLACK CLASSMATES IN THE SAME GHETTO SCHOOL AND EVEN HE OUTPERFORMS THE ADMITTED AFFLUENT IMMIGRANT BLACK AA ADMITS, ON THE AVERAGE??
Just examine the performance of Asian Americans in the POOREST neighborhoods in America, especially in the Hispanic and black ghettos, where Asian Americans live side by side with blacks and Hispanics in the major cities, such as NYC, and examine the performance of the students on the NYC Public School Reports on test scores, grades, all academic achievement measures, graduation rates, and attendance disaggregated by race and ethnicity, and you will find that the poorest Asian Americans OUTPERFORMED blacks, on the average, almost without exception in every school in NYC’s poorest districts, while living in the same neighborhoods as blacks, in the same apartment buildings with the same lack of economic resources. These poorest of Asian Americans,which include Cambodians and other S.E. Asians, EVEN OUTPERFORMED THE RICHEST MOST AFFLUENT AND EDUCATED BLACKS, which include the black immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean, admitted with race preferences to Harvard and the elites.
Why should these most affluent of blacks, underperforming and underachieving be admitted over the more deserving and higher performing poor Chinese American by every metric used, including HOLISTIC CRITERIA used for admissions. Cobra, you cannot justify this with your ranting and raving on these threads.
NOTHING JUSTIFIES RACE AND ETHNIC GROUP PREFERENCES IN OUR SOCIETY.
You are flinging your usual pile of HORSE MANURE. Right, “listen up, readers”. You are not fooling anyone on this forum, regardless of skin color.
Asian Americans are admitted at the lowest rate of any racial or ethnic group, including whites, because of racial preferences.
Blacks are admitted at the highest rates. The black admit rate is 2 times higher, and the white admit rate is also higher than the Asian American admit rate, because of racial preferences, and a de facto anti-Asian quota.
By lowering the admissions standards for URMs (underrepresented minorities, blacks, Latinos, etc.), these schools raise the admissions standards for Asians. Whites are also admitted with lower standards than Asians, on the average, but higher than that of URMs.
Asians, with their overall higher standards for admissions, as an applicant group, on the average relative to the other groups, including whites, are used to compensate for the lowered standards for the admission of the other groups.
Race and ethnic group preferences were not justified in Nazi Germany and they are not justified in present day Bosnia.
RACE PREFERENCES NEVER WORKED IN WORLD HISTORY, NOR WILL THEY EVER WORK IN AMERICA.
Shame on you Cobra for supporting discrimination, and race preferences. This will eventually come back and bite you in the azz, and this hurt you in the long term, whether or not you realize this.
Stop with your horse manure with posting “nonsense” without any basis in truth and/or fact. Please give us all a break, including “readers” of this site.
Again, Asian Americans are not asking for preferential treatment in admissions, as you are asking for in admissions for even rich affluent under performing, underachieving and under deserving immigrant blacks and their off-springs, with lowered admissions standards as well as a lowered holistic criteria based on your own black skin. Why should these blacks even deserve to be beneficiaries of race based Affirmation Action, a program which was not even targeted for them, but for the descendants of African American slaves, who were the actual victims of their white slave owners, Jim Crow and their own black African brothers in Africa, who sold them as slaves?
This is DISCRIMINATION against other groups, favoring undeserving rich under performing, underachieving and under scoring immigrant blacks from the Caribbean amd Africa because they recieve race based AA by being admitted with lowered standards relative to the rest of the admitted class.
ANSWER THE QUESTION!!! YOU CAN’T.