Shelby Steele On Obama … And Others

At and after a recent lecture in Toronto Shelby Steele had some interesting things to say about Obama … and others.

… he believes Barack Obama will not win the Democratic nomination for the presidency, in large part because he is caught between pleasing blacks and whites and can never please all Americans at once….

“He needs a self. There’s no self there. I think it comes from a lifetime of being bound up and playing one side, and another side, and never feeling that he had the right to be his own man,” Mr. Steele said in a hotel bar this week. “This is the tragedy, certainly, of the black intellectual class in America. They don’t think they have the right to be individuals, so they’re all just predictable, victim-focused, old line. It’s a generation that’s failed to really take us further. Obama is a part of that. There’s nobody there.”

….

He argues blacks in America typically wear one of two “masks”: They are either challengers or bargainers. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are challengers: Such blacks assume whites are racist until they prove otherwise. Bargainers, on the other hand, make a deal with whites by not rubbing their faces in a history of racism — think of Louis Armstrong or Oprah, he says.

Mr. Obama is an archetypal bargainer, says Mr. Steele, whose forthcoming book on the Democratic contender, A Bound Man: Why We Are Excited About Obama and Why He Can’t Win, will be released in time for the primaries.

“The question that hovers over Obama to this day: Is he really black enough? If white people like you, it’s very likely you’re not black enough. Black people are very suspicious of that. To prove himself to black people, he has to be a challenger,” Mr. Steele says.

“White America loves him because they think he’s a bargainer. And so if he goes with whites, blacks don’t like him and say he’s not black enough. If he goes with blacks, whites say, ‘He’s not the guy we thought he was.’ So he’s a bound man.

“I see him almost as a Promethean figure, someone who might have a gift to give us, but is so bound that he’s unable to do that.”

Say What? (27)

  1. E October 27, 2007 at 11:59 am | | Reply

    Many people here are making false assumptions by assuming biracial people identify more with one side than the other

    We’re a society that loves to check off boxes, but the greater challenge is to stop seeing people as shades and start knowing them for who they are.

    Quote:

    “As the child of a black man and white woman, born in the melting pot of Hawaii, with a sister who is half-Indonesian, but who is usually mistaken for Mexican, and a brother-in-law and niece of Chinese descent, with some relatives who resemble Margaret Thatcher and others who could pass for Bernie Mac, I never had the option of restricting my loyalties on the basis of race or measuring my worth on the basis of tribe.”

    - Barack Obama, Kenyan/White American, Illinois Senator, presidential candidate

  2. wallace October 27, 2007 at 9:54 pm | | Reply

    The issue is not whether Obama is black or white enough or whether or not he is hitting Hillary hard enough, it is , other than his philosophical meanderings, that he has had nothing new or substantial to say. His whole campaign concept was based on his style and the people are more interested in his substance. His minor quarrels with his opponents shows that he does not have the depth of knowledge or experience to compete for the nomination. $80 million can only take you so far. The real Obama is now emerging and he is not what the advertisements promised.

  3. Tom J October 27, 2007 at 10:29 pm | | Reply

    Shelby Steele sounds so…old. As Barack has said, it’s time to get past all these old Baby Boomer preoccupations – they’re stuck in a rut and spinning tgeir wheels.

  4. Cobra October 29, 2007 at 10:46 pm | | Reply

    From the article:

    >>>”Mr. Steele classifies himself as one of a new sort of breed of black American — a minority so small, “we could probably all meet in a phone booth,” he says. Blacks who do not wear either mask are individuals. He holds up Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas and Bill Cosby as positive examples.”

    Who is Shelby Steele trying to kid? He’s in the business of SELLING BOOKS.

    His next book, as posted, is “A Bound Man: Why We Are Excited About Obama and Why He Can’t Win”

    Shelby Steele is NOT a popular author among African-Americans, so who’s buying these books and putting money in his pocket?

    White people, of course. And conservative White people at that. He follows the same marketing strategy of “bargaining” that he charges Oprah and Louis Armstrong of doing:

    >>>”Mr. Steele, who spoke at Grano as part of an ongoing series on the race to the White House, is the author of White Guilt: How Blacks and Whites Together Destroyed the Promise of the Civil Rights Era, which maintains that whites lost moral authority by admitting they had wronged black Americans.”

    If THAT’S not Shelby Steele’s self-described tactic of bargaining–

    “Bargainers, on the other hand, make a deal with whites by not rubbing their faces in a history of racism– I don’t know what else you would call it. Shelby Steele, IMHO, is just another shameless Professional Black Conservative out to make a quick buck.

    –Cobra

  5. Shouting Thomas October 30, 2007 at 9:09 am | | Reply

    I continue to wonder why this blog allows a man who hides behind a gang moniker to post.

  6. E October 30, 2007 at 9:42 am | | Reply

    Hey Cobra,

    Shelby Steele is half-white, or if you prefer, half-black.

    You are making false assumptions again by assuming biracial people identify more with one side than the other.

  7. Anita October 31, 2007 at 10:08 am | | Reply

    Cobra, I’m black. I like Shelby Steele.

    You should not think that everyone who does not agree with you is out for the money. The ability to accept that others can disgree honestly with you is the mark of a mature mind. I could easily say that someone like Jesse Jackson or a white liberal like Jimmy Carter are only out for the money. AFter all, they are far more popular than Shelby Steele with black people and the white media. They are assured of far more popular support than any black conservative. But I do them the honor of assuming that they believe what they say, that they are at least sincere. I don’t think Carter writes what he writes about Israel because he knows his books will be on the NYT bestsellers list (which they always are). I don’t believe that Jackson is just out to get money from a company when he says it is racist. He does get the money, of course, but I believe he is sincere in his denunciation of racism. I just do not agree with those men.

  8. Cobra October 31, 2007 at 6:49 pm | | Reply

    E writes:

    >>>”Hey Cobra,

    Shelby Steele is half-white, or if you prefer, half-black.

    You are making false assumptions again by assuming biracial people identify more with one side than the other.”

    E, you should widen your scope of whom you consider “black”…especially in America:

    >>>”Historians and geneticists agree the (DNA) tests could fill a void in the identity of African-Americans whose ancestors were held in bondage. But the tests might also raise uncomfortable questions about race, ethnic pride and the dirty secrets of American history that blacks and whites alike may not want to deal with, some historians said.

    The tests have already revealed that about 30 percent of African-American males have a white male ancestor — often evidence one of their slave ancestors was the RAPE victim or mistress of a white plantation owner or overseer.”

    http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2000/04/05/loc_dna_helps_find.html

    Not that it matters of course, because by your arguments on other threads, Shelby Steele is “less qualified” to discuss any of these issues, and is tainted by affirmative action.

    But if the readers will indulge me, I want to challenge you, and some of the other anti-affirmative action types a little more. I want to know what YOUR definition of “black” is.

    From the AMERICAN ACADEMY OF FORENSIC SCIENCES:

    >>>”Since this nation’s inception, you have been defined as black if you

    had any known African black ancestry. This became known as the “one

    drop rule,” meaning that a single drop of black blood makes a person

    black. Some courts have referred to it as the “one black ancestor rule”

    or the “traceable amount rule.” Anthropologists have designated it as the

    “hypo-descent rule,” meaning that racially mixed persons are assigned

    the status of the subordinate group.”

    http://www.aafs.org/pdf/NewOrleansabstracts05.pdf

    That should sound familiar to many here, because that’s what I’ve said on MANY a blog thread.

    But you know what? Some here didn’t believe me, E. Some people just think I’m making this stuff up. Truth be told, I’m just a liberal cartoonist and concerned citizen, and I’ll freely admit that what I say may not carry any weight with many here.

    What DOES carry weight, E, something reinforced day after day on Discriminations, is the Court System, and THEIR opinions.

    >>>”During the Jim Crow era, many southern states had race classification

    statutes. Louisiana’s race classifications statute in 1970 defined

    anyone as black whose ancestry is more than one thirty second black.

    Sussie Phipps challenged this law in the suite filed as Jane Doe v. State

    of Louisiana. Despite her blond hair and blue eyes, Ms. Phipps’ birth

    certificate indicated that she was “colored” which contradicted the white

    classification she had checked off on her passport application. Her relatives

    admitted in depositions that they considered themselves colored.

    In 1983, district court declared her legally black.”

    http://www.aafs.org/pdf/NewOrleansabstracts05.pdf

    It gets better, E–read on:

    >>>”The Louisiana State

    Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals UPHELD the district court’s decision.

    The court ruled that a party could not change their racial designation or their parents: “That Appellants might today describe themselves as white does not prove error in a document which designates their parents as colored.

    Of course, if the parents designation as ‘colored’ cannot be disturbed,

    their descendants MUST be defined as black by the traceable amount

    rule.” Although noting expert testimony to the effect that the race of an

    individual cannot be determined with scientific accuracy, the court said

    the law of racial designation is not based on science, that “individual

    race designations are purely social and cultural perceptions and the evidence

    conclusively proves those SUBJECTIVE PERSPECTIVES were correctly

    recorded at the time the appellant’s birth certificate was recorded.”

    At the rehearing, the appellate court AFFIRMED the necessity of designating

    race on the birth certificate for public health, affirmative action, and that

    equal protection had not been violated.”

    http://www.aafs.org/pdf/NewOrleansabstracts05.pdf

    Yeah, I know, E. Those local judges legislating from the bench, dagnabit! Surely, the higher courts would overturn these backwater opinions on race in the late twentieth century, right?

    >>>”The Louisiana Supreme Court in 1986 DECLINED to review the lower courts decisions.

    In December of 1986, the U.S. Supreme Court DISMISSED the appeal for want of a substantial

    federal question.

    Consequently, the one drop rule still legally

    determines who is black in America.”

    http://www.aafs.org/pdf/NewOrleansabstracts05.pdf

    Welcome to the REAL America, E, where if your great-great-great-great grandmother was black–the US Supreme Court says–You are TOO.

    Anita writes:

    >>>”Cobra, I’m black. I like Shelby Steele.”

    You should ask E if he feels you’re “less qualified” to give your opinion on this matter, since you’re black, and all.

    Anita writes:

    >>>”You should not think that everyone who does not agree with you is out for the money.”

    I don’t think you’re out for the money. I don’t think John Rosenberg’s out for the money. Heck, I don’t even think Stephen is out for the money (but I’d sure pay to talk about this stuff in a bar on Marin Ave in JC.)

    The difference is…this “man”…this Steele is making a LIVING out of this self-immolation style black-bashing. Look at his Amazon.com page:

    http://www.amazon.com/White-Guilt-Together-Destroyed-Promise/dp/0060578629

    And look at the list of other books that “customers also bought”…

    “Enough: The Phony Leaders, Dead-End Moveme… by Juan Williams”

    “The Content of Our Character : A New Visio… by Shelby Steele”

    “Black Rednecks and White Liberals by Thomas Sowell”

    “Winning the Race: Beyond the Crisis in Bla… by John McWhorter”

    I’m not asking you to AGREE with my positions, Anita. I’m just asking you to see the OBVIOUS TREND before your eyes, and just how LUCRATIVE it can be for Professional Black Conservatives to attack other blacks for the entertainment of white conservatives.

    It’s a RACKET, Anita, and you know this, because you can hear a “family values, study hard, obey the law” message in any given Black Church on Sunday Morning.

    –Cobra

  9. E October 31, 2007 at 10:53 pm | | Reply

    Hey Cobra,

    You are making false assumptions again by assuming biracial people identify more with one side than the other, regardless of what you and anyone else think.

    The Rev. Al Sharpton said that Obama was not “black enough”.

    Tiger Woods does not think of himself as a “black man” despite what anyone else says, including you Cobra. Tiger is one half Asian American (his mother is 100% ethnic Chinese of Thai origin and his father is part German, Native American and African American. If anything, Tiger is more ASIAN AMERICAN than he is African American and Tiger does not think of himself as exclusively “black”, but multiracial, despite your ranting and raving on this site.

    BLACKS CAN SUCCEED SOLELY ON THE BASIS OF MERIT.

    Here’s food for thought.

    http://www.arthurhu.com/index/afact.htm

    Hu’s Laws of Affirmative Action

    (1) No two groups are equal unless they are stastically identical

    (2) The level of inequality goes up with the level of selectivity

    (3) The only way to impose equality is to use different selection levels, and amount of difference goes up with the level of selection

    These laws are upheld for almost every observable case of affirmative action.

    The Politically Correct Laws of Affirmative Action

    1) All groups are naturally equal in the absence of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.

    2) Any differences are due to racism by the White Race (TM) and only the White Race (TM), in particular, religious, rich, conservative straight white males, can cause these differences. For differences between classes, see Karl Marx.

    3) Affirmative Action does not require any preferences for any group at any level for any group.

    These laws are consistent with any orthodox piece ever written about or defending affirmative action.

    Top 10 most stupid defenses of affirmative action

    1 – Affirmative Action is not racial preference. But they won’t

    tolerate a ban on preferences. And if it’s unfair to not attack

    veterans and alumni preferences, then doesn’t that prove that it is

    also preferential?

    2 – Affirmative Action is not quotas. But the only acceptable

    evidence of discrimination is numerical quotas – “minorities are

    under-represented”. No other criterion – test scores, grades,

    experience are acceptable if they don’t result in diversity.

    3 – Affirmative Action does not lower standards of excellence. But

    the only standard of excellence that has any value is skin color and

    ethnicity. The same people who say that there are no differences in

    standards often refer to MINIMAL, not average standards.

    4 – Affirmative Action does not admit unqualified people. But it is

    admitting lesser qualified people. This is a circular defintion if

    you define minimally qualified by the worst person hired. Minimally

    is not equally or best qualified.

    5 – Affirmative Action is not reverse discrimination. Some cite that

    only whites can be racist since only they have power. They say

    that it is impossible to discriminate against whites, even if a

    program completely excludes whites, or causes whites to be

    under-represented. Many admit that affirmative action is preference

    for some races, which is by the dictionary defintion, discrimination.

    6 – Discrimination still exists. It will always exist. But

    discrimination against innocent parties does nothing to eliminate

    discrimination against minorities, it only creates more

    discrimination, and affirmative action is discrimination sanctioned

    by law.

    7 – Selection without regard to race amounts to unfair discrimination.

    This is the most outrageously and blatant twisting of the word

    discrimination, which used to mean selection with race AS a factor.

    The definition of discrimination is now unequal outcomes, as opposed

    to unequal treatment.

    8 – No white man has ever been discriminated against. There are books

    and newspapers full of the stuff, but it is rarely reported, and when

    it is challenged, they often lose because the courts often rule

    discrimination against Whites to be legal.

    BTW, anecdotes and exceptions to the rule DO NOT MAKE THE RULE. I am referring to group studies, not anecdotes and exceptions to the rule. I again say to your incessant ranting and raving based solely on anecdotes and outrageous assertions, SO WHAT??? You have not presented any evidence based on research, not one iota, to refute my points. ARE YOU FOR REAL?

  10. Cobra November 2, 2007 at 12:09 am | | Reply

    E writes:

    >>>”BTW, anecdotes and exceptions to the rule DO NOT MAKE THE RULE. I am referring to group studies, not anecdotes and exceptions to the rule. I again say to your incessant ranting and raving based solely on anecdotes and outrageous assertions, SO WHAT??? You have not presented any evidence based on research, not one iota, to refute my points. ARE YOU FOR REAL?”

    I guess you don’t actually READ what I post. That’s not surprising. Many entrenched stalwarts of the anti-affirmative action type brigade fail to notice many of the points I bring up.

    In your case…

    You totally gloss over the very definition of what it means to be “Black” in America, which I presented from scientific journals.

    You make arguments based on the opinions of people like Dr. Arthur Hu.

    Who is Dr. Arthur Hu?

    You can’t mean this guy…

    >>>”Maybe I’m just an optimist, but slowly with the rise of the conservative movement, maybe people will finally figure out that the only we’ll get equality is when minorities achieve parity in grades, test scores, income, and education. To do this, they’ll have to follow the path of the Jews and Asians by getting used to the idea of getting there by working twice as hard, even if it means getting only half as far.

    That’s equality, not some silly quota instituted by some government edict.”

    http://www.arthurhu.com/97/03/allerlei/arthurhu.htm

    I’m supposed to take this guy seriously? He actually believes that grades and test scores, instead of socialistic collective wealth accumulation and ethnic economic isolationism were what neccessitated certain immigrant “success” stories in the US?

    How NAIVE can this man be?

    Perhaps he should read Discriminations, where we have African-Americans who graduate Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law called “tainted”.

    And who is he trying to surprise with this line?

    “…by getting used to the idea of getting there by working twice as hard, even if it means getting only half as far….”

    Hello? Most conscious African-Americans have always known that they have to constantly prove themselves worthy in a white supremacist society. Why does he think the “black tax” is some sort of newsflash?

    And when there ARE African-American academic achievers, E–do you accept them at face value (pun intended)?

    Oh no. Today’s angry conservative anti-affirmative action type movement only has tolerance for Steeles, Sowells, McWhorters, and Williams’, who trip over themselves in an effort to see who can denegrate black people worse.

    It would be funny, if it wasn’t downright SHAMEFUL.

    –Cobra

  11. E November 2, 2007 at 6:50 am | | Reply

    Hey Cobra,

    You have not presented any evidence based on research, not one iota, to refute my points. ARE YOU FOR REAL?.

    Answer the points of argument, if you can. Heed the message, but don’t kill the messenger.

    I again say to your incessant ranting and raving based solely on anecdotes and outrageous assertions, SO WHAT??? ARE YOU FOR REAL?

    You obviously HAVE NOT READ ANY OF MY POINTS from this thread.

    http://www.discriminations.us/2007/10/sauce_for_the_goose_glass_hous.html

    Sauce For The Goose? Glass House Rock Thrower?

    Hey Cobra,

    Why don’t you address my points?

    1. SIMPLY, BLACKS MUST CHANGE THEIR CULTURE FROM WITHIN. NO ONE ELSE IS GOING TO EFFECT CHANGE UNLESS BLACKS CHANGE THEMSELVES CULTURALLY FROM WITHIN. THE CULTURE IS A SELF-DESTRUCTIVE ONE WITH BLACK ON BLACK CRIME, 90% OUT-OF-WEDLOCK BIRTHS, ABSENT FATHERS, ETC..

    2. NO ONE IS “ENTITLED TO” OR “DESERVED” A SPOT BASED ON A RACIAL PREFERENCE. NOT ASIAN AMERICANS, NOT BLACK AMERICANS, NOT WHITE AMERICANS, NOT LATINO AMERICANS, NOT A BLACK OBAMA, NOT A WHITE OBAMA, NOT A HALF WHITE OBAMA, and NOT A HALF BLACK OBAMA. YOUR SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT BASED ON RACE IS SIMPLY ASTOUNDING!

    3. ADMISSIONS SHOULD BE RACE BLIND, ETHNIC GROUP BLIND AND COLOR BLIND. I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW THE RACE OF OBAMA IN ADMISSIONS TO ELITE SCHOOLS AND THE ADMISSIONS COMMITTEES SHOULD NOT HAVE KNOWN THE RACE OF OBAMA. BUT THEY DID KNOW, AND WITH THEIR RACE BASED AA ADMISSIONS PROCESS, THESE ADMISSIONS COMMITTEES GAVE OBAMA RACIAL PREFERENCES, IN ADMISSIONS, OR A LEG UP AND A TREMENDOUS BOOST

    4. RACE PREFERENCES of any kind are immoral and illegal. This holds true if the beneficiaries are persons with white, black, brown, yellow, red, purple OR ONE DROP OF BLACK BLOOD. You are so full of fluff and go off in tangents. You keep playing the race card and the victim which will be the cause of your complete demise.

    5. Race preferences for blacks DO NOT WORK TO CLOSE THE RACIAL GAPS IN ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENT. RACE PREFERENCES AND RACE BASED AA DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD FOR BLACKS. In fact, since the era of race based AA, these gaps have widen.

    FACTS:

    Black children from the wealthiest families have mean SAT scores lower than white/Asian children from families below the poverty line.

    Black children of parents with graduate degrees have lower SAT scores than white/Asian children of parents with a high-school diploma or less.

    6. Race preferences do not work. Race preferences did not work in Nazi Germany in the past and they also do not work in present day Bosnia. Race preferences WILL NOT WORK and HAVE NOT WORKED in the USA.

    7. Race based AA is the embodiment of the taint of racial preference. Abolish race preferences and race based AA, and you eliminate the DOUBT from everyone, INCLUDING AFRICAN AMERICANS THEMSELVES, by whatever definition one defines “black” or African American, including the blacks with the “one drop of blood theory” definition.

    8. The greater challenge is to stop seeing people as shades and start knowing them for who they are.

    9. BLACKS CAN SUCCEED SOLELY ON THE BASIS OF MERIT.

    Hey Cobra, COMPRENDE??

    http://www.arthurhu.com/index/afact.htm

    Why don’t you answer and refute Hu’s points of arguments, instead of trying to kill the messenger. You can’t be serious.

  12. Cobra November 25, 2007 at 12:26 am | | Reply

    E writes:

    >>>”Why don’t you answer and refute Hu’s points of arguments, instead of trying to kill the messenger.”

    E, I rebuked Hu in three sentences, using Barack Obama as a perfect example. You right wingers don’t give a damn that he was Magna Cum Laude at Harvard Law, which is proof positive that Hu’s perception that grades and test scores mean EVERYTHING is a false religion.

    But you want me to break down your points?

    OK. You asked for it.

    E writes:

    >>>”1. SIMPLY, BLACKS MUST CHANGE THEIR CULTURE FROM WITHIN. NO ONE ELSE IS GOING TO EFFECT CHANGE UNLESS BLACKS CHANGE THEMSELVES CULTURALLY FROM WITHIN. THE CULTURE IS A SELF-DESTRUCTIVE ONE WITH BLACK ON BLACK CRIME, 90% OUT-OF-WEDLOCK BIRTHS, ABSENT FATHERS, ETC..”

    That’s not “black culture”. That’s AMERICAN culture, which is a result of conditions of American society crashing headlong into demographic reality. Due to various conditions, largely created by NON-BLACK forces, sheer demographics dictate that there’s a gender gap between available black men and available black women to have exclusively black marriages for every black citizen. Given hyper-segregation, and the comparitively minute percentage of INTERRACIAL marriage, it isn’t a “black cultural” problem…

    It’s an AMERICAN issue.

    Same with so called black on black crime. No hyper-segregation of housing? Black on black crime rate goes down.

    E writes:

    >>>”2. NO ONE IS “ENTITLED TO” OR “DESERVED” A SPOT BASED ON A RACIAL PREFERENCE. NOT ASIAN AMERICANS, NOT BLACK AMERICANS, NOT WHITE AMERICANS, NOT LATINO AMERICANS, NOT A BLACK OBAMA, NOT A WHITE OBAMA, NOT A HALF WHITE OBAMA, and NOT A HALF BLACK OBAMA. YOUR SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT BASED ON RACE IS SIMPLY ASTOUNDING!”

    Nonsense. White entitlement was the law of the land in America for nearly two centuries. When they got rid of that on paper, they continued the practice through nepotism, cronyism, fraternalism, interlocking directorates, old boys networks and patronage.

    Don’t take my word for it, E. Read your financial pages, and tell me who gets the sweetheart deals and no-bid contracts. You know about those, right E? What you probably consider the “normal” way of doing business.

    E writes:

    >>>”3. ADMISSIONS SHOULD BE RACE BLIND, ETHNIC GROUP BLIND AND COLOR BLIND. I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW THE RACE OF OBAMA IN ADMISSIONS TO ELITE SCHOOLS AND THE ADMISSIONS COMMITTEES SHOULD NOT HAVE KNOWN THE RACE OF OBAMA. BUT THEY DID KNOW, AND WITH THEIR RACE BASED AA ADMISSIONS PROCESS, THESE ADMISSIONS COMMITTEES GAVE OBAMA RACIAL PREFERENCES, IN ADMISSIONS, OR A LEG UP AND A TREMENDOUS BOOST”

    Nonsense again. Many whites in America use every resource to their advantage to get their kids into college, whether it be through legacies, name-dropping, financial donations or exclusive reference letters from prominent people in government or industry. I don’t begrudge them for it, but you seem to want to ignore this fact.

    And you tip your hand by limiting your animus to “elite” schools. You know the power of what a degree from an “elite” school means, and you given the impression that you don’t want that power to be “shared.”

    That makes you typical of most anti-affirmative action types.

    E writes:

    >>>”4. RACE PREFERENCES of any kind are immoral and illegal. This holds true if the beneficiaries are persons with white, black, brown, yellow, red, purple OR ONE DROP OF BLACK BLOOD. You are so full of fluff and go off in tangents. You keep playing the race card and the victim which will be the cause of your complete demise.”

    Nonsense. Americans use race preferences every moment of every day, whether they’re deciding where to live, whom to hire, whom to date or marry, what entertainment to choose, etc.

    Study after study has proven that we make decisions based on race all the time.

    You and the “color-blind commandoes” do it too, but you won’t admit to it.

    E writes:

    >>>”5. Race preferences for blacks DO NOT WORK TO CLOSE THE RACIAL GAPS IN ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENT. RACE PREFERENCES AND RACE BASED AA DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD FOR BLACKS. In fact, since the era of race based AA, these gaps have widen.”

    That’s inconsequential. You and many other whites on this board have already demonstrated that you will ATTACK Blacks no matter WHAT SCORES they achieve or HOW HIGH they graduate in even elite college classes.

    Who do you think you’re fooling, E? This was NEVER about grades. Jennifer Gratz didn’t say two words about whites with lower grades or scores getting into Michigan before her. This is all about RACE and White skin privilege.

    E writes:

    >>>”6. Race preferences do not work. Race preferences did not work in Nazi Germany in the past and they also do not work in present day Bosnia. Race preferences WILL NOT WORK and HAVE NOT WORKED in the USA.”

    LOL…have you ever even OPENED a history book in your life, E?

    If you don’t think the history of America and present American society isn’t INUNDATED with racial preference, you should check yourself into rehab–’cause you’re tripping on something.

    E writes:

    >>>”7. Race based AA is the embodiment of the taint of racial preference. Abolish race preferences and race based AA, and you eliminate the DOUBT from everyone, INCLUDING AFRICAN AMERICANS THEMSELVES, by whatever definition one defines “black” or African American, including the blacks with the “one drop of blood theory” definition.”

    Nonsense. WMPS saw African-Americans as inferior LONG before Nixon enacted Affirmative Action, and will continue to do so regardless of policy changes. It’s called racism, E.

    E writes:

    >>>”8. The greater challenge is to stop seeing people as shades and start knowing them for who they are.”

    YOU are the one “challenged” by “seeing people as shades”, E. You can’t sit here and rattle off three pages worth of attacks on Black people and then challenge OTHERS not to “see people as shades.”

    E writes:

    >>>”9. BLACKS CAN SUCCEED SOLELY ON THE BASIS OF MERIT.”

    Nonsense. America is NOT a meritocracy. Even all WHITES don’t succeed solely on the basis of merit. If you disagree, prove to me that America is a meritocracy with REAL facts. Show me how today in 2007, it’s “what you know, and not WHO you know.”

    See? I went through your points. Refuted them all.

    –Cobra

  13. E December 2, 2007 at 1:13 am | | Reply

    Cobra said,

    “See? I went through your points. Refuted them all.”

    You have not refuted anything, because I INCLUDED whites, as well, as blacks in my condemnation of race based AA, including “Affirmative Action of affluent whites”, as Daniel Golden has written about in his book, the Price of Admission.

    You stance is pure HYPOCRISY. You cannot justify one injustice, favoritism for whites with another, favoritism for blacks, based solely on skin color.

    You did not refute ANYTHING. You are still flinging HORSE MANURE!!

  14. E December 2, 2007 at 8:31 am | | Reply

    Cobra said,

    “See? I went through your points. Refuted them all.”

    http://www.discriminations.us/2007/10/sauce_for_the_goose_glass_hous.html

    You have not refuted anything, because I INCLUDED whites, as well, as blacks in my condemnation of race based AA, including “Affirmative Action of affluent whites”, as Daniel Golden has written about in his book, the Price of Admission.

    Your stance is pure HYPOCRISY. You cannot justify one injustice, favoritism for whites with another, favoritism for blacks, based solely on skin color.

    You have not “won” anything. You have not cited any double blind reputable studies to back up any of your ridiculous assertions or so called “refutations”. You are simply flinging HORSE MANURE! You are one SINGLE ANGRY DELUSIONAL INDIVIDUAL WITH YOUR ASSERTIONS.

    Reread this thread:

    http://www.discriminations.us/2007/10/sauce_for_the_goose_glass_hous.html

    Sauce For The Goose? Glass House Rock Thrower?

    Why don’t you address my points one by one? I am still waiting. I listed them for you. Your silence on each point IS DEAFENING!!

    1. SIMPLY, BLACKS MUST CHANGE THEIR CULTURE FROM WITHIN. NO ONE ELSE IS GOING TO EFFECT CHANGE UNLESS BLACKS CHANGE THEMSELVES CULTURALLY FROM WITHIN. THE CULTURE IS A SELF-DESTRUCTIVE ONE WITH BLACK ON BLACK CRIME, 90% OUT-OF-WEDLOCK BIRTHS, ABSENT FATHERS, ETC..

    2. NO ONE IS “ENTITLED TO” OR “DESERVED” A SPOT BASED ON A RACIAL PREFERENCE. NOT ASIAN AMERICANS, NOT BLACK AMERICANS, NOT WHITE AMERICANS, NOT LATINO AMERICANS, NOT A BLACK OBAMA, NOT A WHITE OBAMA, NOT A HALF WHITE OBAMA, and NOT A HALF BLACK OBAMA. YOUR SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT BASED ON RACE IS SIMPLY ASTOUNDING!

    3. ADMISSIONS SHOULD BE RACE BLIND, ETHNIC GROUP BLIND AND COLOR BLIND. I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW THE RACE OF OBAMA IN ADMISSIONS TO ELITE SCHOOLS AND THE ADMISSIONS COMMITTEES SHOULD NOT HAVE KNOWN THE RACE OF OBAMA. BUT THEY DID KNOW, AND WITH THEIR RACE BASED AA ADMISSIONS PROCESS, THESE ADMISSIONS COMMITTEES GAVE OBAMA RACIAL PREFERENCES, IN ADMISSIONS, OR A LEG UP AND A TREMENDOUS BOOST

    4. RACE PREFERENCES of any kind are immoral and illegal. This holds true if the beneficiaries are persons with white, black, brown, yellow, red, purple OR ONE DROP OF BLACK BLOOD. You are so full of fluff and go off in tangents. You keep playing the race card and the victim which will be the cause of your complete demise.

    5. Race preferences for blacks DO NOT WORK TO CLOSE THE RACIAL GAPS IN ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENT. RACE PREFERENCES AND RACE BASED AA DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD FOR BLACKS. In fact, since the era of race based AA, these gaps have widen.

    FACTS:

    Black children from the wealthiest families have mean SAT scores lower than white/Asian children from families below the poverty line.

    Black children of parents with graduate degrees have lower SAT scores than white/Asian children of parents with a high-school diploma or less.

    6. Race preferences do not work. Race preferences did not work in Nazi Germany in the past and they also do not work in present day Bosnia.

    7. Race based AA is the embodiment of the taint of racial preference. Abolish race preferences and race based AA, and you eliminate the DOUBT from everyone, INCLUDING AFRICAN AMERICANS THEMSELVES, by whatever definition one defines “black” or African American, including the blacks with the “one drop of blood theory” definition.

    8. The greater challenge is to stop seeing people as shades and start knowing them for who they are.

    9. BLACKS CAN SUCCEED SOLELY ON THE BASIS OF MERIT.

    You have not answered or countered any of my points.

    You said, “And run around touting black collumnists (SIC) who self-immolate like Thomas Sowell and John McWhorter without posting THEIR SAT scores.”

    Here you make another ridiculous assertion. Why don’t you post their SAT scores, as well as their grades?

    BTW, anecdotes and exceptions to the rule DO NOT MAKE THE RULE. I am referring to group studies, not anecdotes and exceptions to the rule. I again say to your incessant ranting and raving based solely on anecdotes and outrageous assertions, SO WHAT??? You have not presented any evidence based on research, not one iota, to refute my points. ARE YOU FOR REAL?

    Please read #9 again.

    9. BLACKS CAN SUCCEED SOLELY ON THE BASIS OF MERIT.

    Here’s food for thought.

    http://www.arthurhu.com/index/afact.htm

    Hu’s Laws of Affirmative Action

    (1) No two groups are equal unless they are stastically identical

    (2) The level of inequality goes up with the level of selectivity

    (3) The only way to impose equality is to use different selection levels, and amount of difference goes up with the level of selection

    These laws are upheld for almost every observable case of affirmative action.

    The Politically Correct Laws of Affirmative Action

    1) All groups are naturally equal in the absence of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.

    2) Any differences are due to racism by the White Race (TM) and only the White Race (TM), in particular, religious, rich, conservative straight white males, can cause these differences. For differences between classes, see Karl Marx.

    3) Affirmative Action does not require any preferences for any group at any level for any group.

    These laws are consistent with any orthodox piece ever written about or defending affirmative action.

    Top 10 most stupid defenses of affirmative action

    1 – Affirmative Action is not racial preference. But they won’t

    tolerate a ban on preferences. And if it’s unfair to not attack

    veterans and alumni preferences, then doesn’t that prove that it is

    also preferential?

    2 – Affirmative Action is not quotas. But the only acceptable

    evidence of discrimination is numerical quotas – “minorities are

    under-represented”. No other criterion – test scores, grades,

    experience are acceptable if they don’t result in diversity.

    3 – Affirmative Action does not lower standards of excellence. But

    the only standard of excellence that has any value is skin color and

    ethnicity. The same people who say that there are no differences in

    standards often refer to MINIMAL, not average standards.

    4 – Affirmative Action does not admit unqualified people. But it is

    admitting lesser qualified people. This is a circular defintion if

    you define minimally qualified by the worst person hired. Minimally

    is not equally or best qualified.

    5 – Affirmative Action is not reverse discrimination. Some cite that

    only whites can be racist since only they have power. They say

    that it is impossible to discriminate against whites, even if a

    program completely excludes whites, or causes whites to be

    under-represented. Many admit that affirmative action is preference

    for some races, which is by the dictionary defintion, discrimination.

    6 – Discrimination still exists. It will always exist. But

    discrimination against innocent parties does nothing to eliminate

    discrimination against minorities, it only creates more

    discrimination, and affirmative action is discrimination sanctioned

    by law.

    7 – Selection without regard to race amounts to unfair discrimination.

    This is the most outrageously and blatant twisting of the word

    discrimination, which used to mean selection with race AS a factor.

    The definition of discrimination is now unequal outcomes, as opposed

    to unequal treatment.

    8 – No white man has ever been discriminated against. There are books

    and newspapers full of the stuff, but it is rarely reported, and when

    it is challenged, they often lose because the courts often rule

    discrimination against Whites to be legal.

    You did not refute ANYTHING. You are still flinging HORSE MANURE!!

    Dan Golden has written a series of Pulitzer Winning articles on “AA for affluent whites” in elite college admissions. Sadly to say, the *evil* and *immoral* nature of admissions in elite private colleges and elite preps, is also determined by color solely, as in “AA for blacks or browns” or “AA for affluent whites”. The Asian Americans, or “yellows” are the only non-preferred group in admissions, receiving, “negative action” as opposed to AA for whites or blacks and browns. Asian American applicants don’t need either. They just need a fair and just process, not based on race and skin color, with the process being RACE AND ETHNIC GROUP BLIND. Golden is also also aware of the Espenshade study of preferential treatment in admissions, among other studies. I do suggest that you write him, if you disagree with anything he has written, or read his book, “The Price of Admission”.

    Click on the following to read WSJ’s Dan Golden’s Pulitzer Prize winning series of articles on these matters.

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/PulitzerDG04052004.htm?mod=home_journal_links

    Golden also has a chapter about the discrimination against Asian Ams who have to meet a higher standard for admissions (SAT scores 50 to 100 points higher than the average) and a higher holistic criteria (motivations, creativity, ECs, overcoming obstacles and life experiences). He states that Asian Americans faced the same discrimination Jews did. Asians faced a HIGHER bar for admissions. He talks about the stereotypes of Asians , which he states “that if they are not held to a quota, there is certainly an effort to keep their numbers down” by the Ivies and elites. He calls the issue a “scandal” and a “shame”.

    Click on the following link to listen to Golden’s interview on his book, The Price of Admission.

    http://podcast.mktw.net/wsj/audio/20060906/pod-wsjgolden/pod-wsjgolden.mp3

    He talks about legacy, sports, and rich and famous VIP preferences in admissions to the Ivies.

    Dan Golden has a chapter about the discrimination against Asian Ams who have to meet a higher standard of admissions (SAT scores as much as 125 points higher) and a higher holistic criteria (motivations, creativity, ECs). He states that Asian American faced the same discrimination Jews did. Asians faced a higher bar. He talks about the stereotypes of Asians , which he states “that if they are not held to a quota, there is certainly an effort to keep their numbers down” by the Ivies and elites. He calls the issue a “scandal” and a “shame”.

    Sports helps rich affluent whites, not URMs, and not poor whites in elite college admissions in sports such as crew, squash, fencing, etc., in preps such as Groton and Andover.

    From Daniel Golden’s The Price of Admission, Chapter 7, “The New Jews, Asian

    Americans Need Not Apply”:

    “In 1990, federal investigators concluded that UCLA’s graduate department in mathematics

    had discriminated against Asian applicants.”

    “……… most elite universities have maintained a triple standard in college admissions,

    setting the bar highest for Asians, next for whites, and lowest for blacks and Hispanics.

    According to a 2004 study by three Princeton researchers, an Asian American applicant

    needs to score 50 points higher on the SAT than other applicants just to have the same chance

    of admission to an elite university. (Being an alumni child, by contrast, confers a 160-point

    advantage.) Yale records show that entering Asian American freshmen averaged a 1493

    SAT score in 1999-2000, 1496 in 2000-2001, and 1482 in 2001-2. For the same three years,

    the average for white freshmen was about 40 points lower. Black and Hispanic freshmen

    lagged another 100-125 points below whites. A Yale spokesman attributed the Asian-white

    gap to more whites being recruited athletes, and said Asians and whites are held to the same

    academic standards.”

    . . . . . . . . . .

    “Federal investigators also turned up stereotyping by Harvard admissions evaluators. Possibly

    reflecting a lack of cultural understanding, Harvard evaluators ranked Asian American candidates

    on average below whites in “personal qualities.” In comments written in applicants’ files, Harvard

    admissions staff repeatedly described Asian Americans as “being quiet/shy, science/math oriented,

    and hard workers,” the report found. One reader summed up an Asian applicant this way: “He’s

    quiet and, of course, wants to be a doctor.”

    . . . . . . . . . .

    “He [ Princeton economist Uwe Reinhardt] added that the stereotype of the quiet Asian student

    is “really a strange notion. My Asian American students are very lively. They take leadership

    positions. They’re not at all shy or reticent.”

    . . . . . . . . . .

    “Now as then, a lack of preferences can be a convenient guise for racism. Much as college

    administrators justified anti-Jewish policies with ethnic stereotypes — one Yale dean in 1918 termed

    the typical Jewish student a “greasy grind” — so Asians are typecast in college admissions offices

    as quasi-robots programmed by their parents to ace math and science tests. Asked why Vanderbilt

    poured resources into recruiting Jews instead of Asians, a former administator told me, “Asians are very good students, but they don’t provide the kind of intellectual environment that Jewish

    students provide.”

    . . . . . . . . . .

    From chapter 10, “Ending the Preferences of Privilege”:

    “Provide equal access for Asian American students and for international students who need

    financial aid. If elite colleges were truly committed to socioeconomic diversity, they would regard

    the proliferation of outstanding Asian American applicants as an opportunity, not a problem. They

    would rush to propel into the higher ranks of American society a group of students who not only

    boast outstanding test scores and grades but also are immigrants or immigrants’ children from low-

    or middle-income families that sacrificed in hope of a better life for the next generation. Asian

    American students also bring a variety of cultures, languages, and religions to stir the campus

    melting pot. Colleges should counter anti-Asian bias through sensitivity training sessions and

    hiring more Asian American admissions deans, directors, and staff.”

    Cobra asked,

    [If you DO understand all this, then WHY are you so eager to THROW IN with angry right winged white conservatives? I mean, I completely understand why Ward Connerly throws in with them;

    He's getting paid...WELL paid, at that.

    At what cost does your alliegence to angry right winged white conservatives come?]

    I have not aligned myself with any side, right or left, white or black. You are so quick with your labels, that you have absolutely no credibility at all.

    Again, your stance is pure HYPOCRISY. You cannot justify one injustice, favoritism for whites with another, favoritism for blacks, based solely on skin color.

  15. C. DUFFEY December 4, 2007 at 10:07 pm | | Reply

    Mr. Steele,

    I was just tuning in to your interview with hannity and colmes and just wanted to comment. Much of what you say I agree with it, but did want to mention that when you and Mr. hannity were discussing wearing masks to relate or connect with the main stream you said african americans are not themselves….. I think we all do that… every race… we all act and behave differently in our professions or jobs then when we are at home or off duty. What are you saying is being masked????

    Don’t most of us regardless of race, as americans, have similar values…family, love ones, security, etc….Can you elaborate on the masks that african americans must wear to succeed???

    I disagree thus far with that statement, but you made many good points in the interview.

    Also, why must an African American leader challenge whites to be successful in the African american community?? This doesn’t seem right in the present time, maybe 50 yrs ago….

    I am 30 yrs old and I face the same challenges that all 30 yr old americans face and that goes for all races. It’s tough out there!!!!

    Yours truly,

    Chris

  16. Robin December 5, 2007 at 4:17 pm | | Reply

    Chris –

    In response to your query, “Don’t most of us regardless of race, as americans, have similar values…family, love ones, security, etc….Can you elaborate on the masks that african americans must wear to succeed???

    I think I can elaborate. While I may not often agree with Mr. Steele I think his bargainer, challenger classification is very instructive. The mask African-Americans must wear to “succeed” is pretending to be a bargainer while in truth you are a challenger. In your workplace/professional life you wear the bargainers mask. In your real life, with friends, family and love ones you can expose your challenger side.

  17. beth ashby January 11, 2008 at 10:17 pm | | Reply

    Barack Obama does not express concrete ideas or plans. he has the capability to entrance people, but say nothing. he spoke at my daughters graduation from Northwestern and said nothing. David Axelrod is programming him with no content

  18. George Watson January 13, 2008 at 5:10 pm | | Reply

    Regarding Shelby Steele – The truth hurts. And perhaps the simple truth hurts more because it also makes so many feel foolish.

  19. Reluctant Obama Fan February 3, 2008 at 11:55 pm | | Reply

    1. Can anyone, Shelby Steele or anyone else, name a white politician who isn’t “masking?” Steele complains that Obama won’t tell us what he really thinks… Does he think that anyone who has a shot at the presidency would tell us what they are really thinking? What planet does he live on?

    2. His challenger/bargainer dichotomy is a useful tool for socio-political critique, but his chronology is usually wrong- Did Bill Cosby lose his place of favor in American culture because he stopped wearing the mask of the Bargainer? Or did his sting of failed entertainment ventures and lost canceled endorsement contracts free him up to take of the mask?

    3. I still can’t get over the thing where Steele thinks he knows exactly what Clinton’s ideology is because of what she says or even how she votes, or that any politician’s ideology is fixed and can be judged by their voting record or public statements.

    4. It would be great if he could back up his cultural theory ideas with actual examples and science that are not anecdotes with reversed chronology.

  20. Cobra February 28, 2008 at 4:40 pm | | Reply

    Reluctant Obama Fan writes:

    >>>”4. It would be great if he could back up his cultural theory ideas with actual examples and science that are not anecdotes with reversed chronology.”

    Well, that wouldn’t sell as many books, now would it?

    Do you honestly think that Fox News would voluntarily hilight a person who writes POSITIVE things about African-Americans?

    –Cobra

  21. Erik Johnson March 18, 2008 at 2:45 pm | | Reply

    I read Steele’s ‘Opinion’ in todays WSJ. I am a half white and half black person successful in my field.

    Without blathering on about points with which I disagree with Mr. Steele, suffice it to say that I think he is putting a very bad spin on mixed race people. He is absolutely stating that mixed people have an ingrained need for deception. That ‘serving two masters’ and ‘not knowing yourself’ are hallmarks of successful people who are of mixed race.

    Also, I would suggest that Mr. Steele has a fear of black people.

  22. Karen March 18, 2008 at 10:22 pm | | Reply

    Shelby Steele should be ashamed of himself, as always he is turning against his race, because he is being paid to do so. That is the plight of the african american community being bought out historically by those who have the big bucks….When they come after him for his remarks, he will try to turn his attention back to the African Americans, who will tell him where to go and what to do. I am so sorry for you –it is so sad and embarrassing

  23. Geraldine Brown March 20, 2008 at 8:28 pm | | Reply

    Does Shelby Steele really believe that Lou Dobbs was not pandering to him today knowing he would give a slightly negative view of Obama. Can Mr. Steele really believe that Lou Dobbs cares about blacks or other minorities. And he will allow himself to be used again to line himself up with white folks. He is not a bargainer – he is an Uncle tom.

  24. Carlos Navarro March 20, 2008 at 11:47 pm | | Reply

    In his book on Obama, Shelby Steele claims that Obama cannot win the election because, as an African American, he is compelled to “wear a mask.”

    In his frequent public appearances, does Steele give credit to Paul Lawrence Dumbar for introducing the mask idea in his poem “We Wear the Mask,” (1896) and to W.E.B. Dubois for expanding on it in his book “The Soul of Black Folks” (1903)

    Or does he pass the idea as his own?

  25. PrestoPundit March 21, 2008 at 3:11 pm | | Reply

    THE KEY THING TO KNOW ABOUT BARACK OBAMA

    is that the man isn’t a liar, he’s a bullshitter in Harry Frankfurt’s sense — he has no regard for the truth one way or the other.  He isn’t intent on deceiving you, he just wants to tell you whatever…

  26. Celestine Nke Fosung March 25, 2008 at 4:22 pm | | Reply

    I can understand why people like Sheelbe Steele and Thomas Sowell born in the 40′s and 50′s will never undertsand the man Barack. Interestingly, Barack understands why they will never understand him. The Hoover institute is better than mere writings of scholars who believe the light should shine only on them because of their past. Barack shares that past too. Not only is his better half of that generation his children that he loves so dearly carry that bloodline.

    Barack will be the first democratic black nominee for president. We will help him win the whitehouse, and both Steele and Sowell like others van change their patriotism. Enough and get real. Call Barack by any color you choose, he is Barack Obama the junior senatr from Illinois and front runner for the democratic party nominee for president.

  27. Nicholas Stix March 29, 2008 at 8:58 am | | Reply

    “Many people here are making false assumptions by assuming biracial people identify more with one side than the other”

    E, October 27, 2007, 1159 A.M.

    I don’t know about biracial people in general, but I know that many do identify with one side of their makeup, and that is certainly the case with Barack Obama. Not only did he choose, as a teenager, to identify with the race of the drunken bum who had deserted him and his white mother, but he chose to identify with black supremacy, and still does.

Say What?