If you can think of groups of people as canaries, you may begin to see Lani Guinier’s argument.
Hmm, maybe that’s why I have trouble seeing her argument….
People As Canaries
Say What? (11)
Say What?
Previous Entry: Automated Affirmative Action
Next Entry: Will ENDA End Sexual Orientation Discrimination?
From the link:
“I don’t think we’re doing too well in terms of higher education and democracy because we have more black men in prison than in college,” Guinier said. “That does not seem to be a good sign for a healthy democracy.”
It probably hasn’t occurred to the good doctor that one gets into college by working hard in high school (and before), exercising self-discipline, staying out of trouble, and reading. One gets into prison by hardly working, leading an undisciplined, narcissistic, lifestyle, and committing crimes against others. Very different pathways, and it is the responsibility of the parents (or family), not the state, to walk a child down the first one.
Years ago I read some of Guinier’s work; it was utter garbage, but more importantly the theme of the work was that representative democracy is a failed concept. Her analysis is not only absurd, it’s dishonest.
Brad writes:
>>>”One gets into prison by hardly working, leading an undisciplined, narcissistic, lifestyle, and committing crimes against others. Very different pathways, and it is the responsibility of the parents (or family), not the state, to walk a child down the first one.”
Nonsense.
The great disparity in the prison population for young African-American males is due to the War on Drugs (i.e. Black People)
>>>”Although African Americans comprise only 12.2 percent of the population and 13 percent of drug users, they make up 38 percent of those arrested for drug offenses and 59 percent of those convicted of drug offenses causing critics to call the war on drugs the “New Jim Crow.” The higher arrest rates for African Americans and Latinos do not reflect a higher abuse rate in these communities but rather a law enforcement emphasis on inner city areas where drug use and sales are more likely to take place in open-air drug markets where treatment resources are scarce.”
http://www.drugpolicy.org/communities/race/
>>>”Three out of four drug users are White (non-Latino), but Blacks are much more likely to be arrested for drug offenses and receive longer sentences. As the Sentencing Project reports, Blacks constitute 13 percent of all past-month drug users, but 35 percent of arrests for drug possession, 55 percent of convictions, and 74 percent of prison sentences. Almost 90 percent of people sentenced to state prison for drug possession in 1992 were Black and Latino.”
http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/dec95sklar.htm
Brad, are you claiming that those White frat boys “inhaling” at the toga party all belong in jail? That would be the intellectually CONSISTANT argument.
Wait, there’s more…
>>>”The American Bar Association found that drug arrests climbed by 78 percent for juveniles of color during 1986-1991, while decreasing by a third for White juveniles. The disproportionate arrests–and media coverage–feed the mistaken assumption that Black youth use drugs at higher rates than Whites. In a Los Angeles crackdown on drug dealing around schools, nearly all those charged were Black and Latino. The results were predictable. “Officers were placed at predominantly minority schools,” reports the Los Angeles Times, “despite the federal studies showing more drug use among white youths.”
http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/dec95sklar.htm
Oh, I guess the predominatly WHITE Law Enforcement Divisions around the country aren’t going for the “intellectually consistant” argument. But that certainly can’t do anything to upset the perception of White sanctity oft proclaimed here at Discriminations, especially regarding “crime”…right?
>>>”Contrary to stereotype, “the typical cocaine user is white, male, a high school graduate employed full time and living in a small metropolitan area or suburb,” to quote former drug czar William Bennett.”
http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/dec95sklar.htm
William Bennett??!?! THE William Bennett said that?!? I BET you never though I’d be quoting William Bennett, though I must admit, it’s worth it, if only to use the gambling pun…
>>>”By government count, more than 24 million Americans, mostly White, have used marijuana, cocaine or some other illicit drug in the past year. Imagine if the war on drugs targeted Whites in the suburbs instead of Blacks and Latinos in inner-city neighborhoods. Imagine if undercover cops were routinely sent to predominantly White schools and colleges to sell drugs.
“Although it is clear that whites sell most of the nation’s cocaine and account for 80 percent of its consumers,” reports the Los Angeles Times, citing law officers and judges, “it is blacks and other minorities who continue to fill up America’s courtrooms and jails, largely because…they are the easiest people to arrest.” It’s easier to round up the usual scapegoats.”
http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/dec95sklar.htm
Brad, I’m sure you’ll come up with some witicism defending White illegal drug use, whether it be coccaine, Ecstasy, or unlawfully prescribed Oxycotin, or better yet, defending OBVIOUS racial preference when it comes to the enforcement of drug laws.
All I can ask of you is that you please come up with some ORIGINAL material to defend it, as the old standby jargon is getting stale.
–Cobra
Blacks commit 700% more murder per capita than whites.
Blacks have ALWAYS committed more murder per capita than whites as long as statistics have been kept.
At no time have blacks EVER committed less murder than the HIGHEST historical white murder rate.
This has nothing to do with drugs. This has nothing to do with economics.
This only has to do with an out of control black culture.
I think Guinier may have her numbers wrong. She is citing only the first part of this study. Note the second part.
“More than three times as many black people live in prison cells as in college dorms, the government said in a report to be released today.”
…
“The numbers, driven by men, do not include college students who live off campus. Previously released census data show that black and Hispanic college students — commuters and those in dorms — far outnumber black and Hispanic prison inmates.”
From http://www.azstarnet.com/altds/pastframe/news/203241
ACF,
Where do you get this stuff from?
I don’t plan on simply refuting you with facts. That’s too easy. (Especially given the FAMOUS White MASS MURDERERS of the 20th Century,(blame hip-hop for Hitler and Stalin tough guy!) and the fact that it WASN’T A CRIME for Whites to kill non-whites in America for a good portion of this nation’s history.
I want you to answer a simple question.
What is your definition of “Black Culture?”
–Cobra
Let’s put to rest the myth that the “war on drugs” is responsible for the black incarcertion rate. What nonsense.
Let’s cut the statistics nonsense and talk reality. In pre-Giuliani New York City, black drug dealers controlled the streets in many neighborhoods, including the one where I lived in Ft. Greene Park. Middle class black people were afraid to walk down the street. Grade school children had to be escorted for the two block walk to school.
The drug trade and street violence were inextricably linked. Giulani recognized this and attacked the problem at its root. He ceased regarding “victimless” drug use and trade as a nuisance. Police aggressively cleared the streets of the drug gangs.
The result: the murder and assault rates in NYC dropped dramatically. Middle class black people could walk the streets in their own neighborhoods. The biggest beneficiaries of Giuliani’s policing methods were black men, many of whom are still alive today as a result.
Cobra, your comments are incredible nonsense. To accept this nonsense is to return to a time when blacks were slaughtering and assaulting one another and whites in an all out war on the streets. I lived through it.
Black men who are in jail are in jail because they deserve it. Law abiding blacks are better off as a result. Cobra, your muddle headed idealism would lead us back to the good old days of gang control of the streets of NYC.
Which is better: (1) some sort of clever idealism or (2) doing what works? You are obsessed, Cobra, with this idea of proportionate representation in prison. If you get your way, the result will be a bloodbath on the streets in black communities in New York City. At least, you can be happy in your idealism. How many innocent black lives are you willing to sacrifice to achieve your ideal of proportionate representation in prison?
Stephen writes:
>>>”Cobra, your comments are incredible nonsense. To accept this nonsense is to return to a time when blacks were slaughtering and assaulting one another and whites in an all out war on the streets. I lived through it.”
Obviously, you weren’t “slaughtered” by a black man, or you wouldn’t be posting.
Stephen writes:
>>>”The drug trade and street violence were inextricably linked.”
Of course they were/are. Ask youself a question, Stephen. Cocaine is not a domestically made product. Neither is opium.
Which Black owned airline or freight shipping line brought these drugs to the inner cities of America?
Stephen writes:
>>>”Giulani recognized this and attacked the problem at its root. He ceased regarding “victimless” drug use and trade as a nuisance. Police aggressively cleared the streets of the drug gangs.”
So whites could do all the drugs they wanted in their neighborhoods, dorm rooms, meat packing district hot spots, and after hours night clubs in the East Village (You know exactly what I’m talking about, Stephen) during “Giuliani-time”, but doggone-it–those Black dudes were gonna PAY, right Stephen?
Did you high five people after Diallo? Dorismond? Louima?
Hmmm….
Stephen writes:
>>>”How many innocent black lives are you willing to sacrifice to achieve your ideal of proportionate representation in prison?”
How many innocent black lives are RUINED by these racial preferences in law enforcement?
You anti-affirmative action types want to march on Washington when you think racial preferences affect blond cheerleaders, but can’t seem to find any words when they leave innocent black men wrongfully accused or incarcerated–or WORSE.
Typical.
–Cobra
Thomas Sowell’s latest column address the “root causes” theory of crime quite thoroughly: http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2007/10/17/crime_and_rhetoric
Oddly enough, in the pre-Giuliani era, white gangs were not terrorizing New York City. Black gangs were terrorizing the city and murdering one another at startling rates. Equally oddly enough, once Giulani’s policing methods took the bad guys off the streets, the reign of terror came to an end. I’ll take that result.
And, amazingly, my respondent continues to use a pseudonym that fairly shrieks of gang sympathies, while arguing angrily that whites are racist to attribute gang membership to blacks.
Stephen writes:
>>>”Oddly enough, in the pre-Giuliani era, white gangs were not terrorizing New York City.”
Are you saying there was/is no organized crime or gansters operating in New York City?
Or are you saying that organized crime in New York City is run by Blacks?
….
Do you actually take time to think about this stuff before you write?
–Cobra
You quoted what I said, then changed the words for me and asked me if I agree with them.
No, I meant what I said… which you quoted. Since you quoted me, you should know what I said.
If you try reading what I actually said again, you’ll notice that the words “Organized Crime” do not appear. You inserted those words and then demanded that I respond to them.
And, once again, you are the only respondent to this board that continues to sign his postings with a gang moniker.
Cobra,
Where did I get this “stuff” from?
You’ve got to be kidding.
You regularly comment on this blog about matters related to crime rate, and you don’t know where I got the most obvious statistics about the issue?
Try here:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
Note that blacks murder at a rate that is 700% above that of whites.
If you want to blame economics, note that the murder rate did NOT spike during the Great Depression:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/hmrttab.htm
Also, note that it actually declined during the duration of the Great Depression.
If you think that slavery has “oppressed” blacks so that now they commit crime, then why are the most crime-prone blacks in Iowa, of all places?
Why is it that white culture does not go around murdering each other during hard economic times?
Black culture is the culture that:
-murders people at a rate that is 700% higher than white culture
-has the majority of their children without fathers
-has a 600% greater chance of of committing a rape-murder than white culture
-has a 1400% greater chance of committing a drug-related murder than white culture
-aborts their babies at a rate that is 400% higher than white culture
-regards women as bitches and ho’s
-celebrates the rap/thug life:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_3_how_hip_hop.html
-has heroes like OJ Simpson, Jesse Jackson, Al Shaprton, Michael Vick
ACF