Spelman President Calls All Whites Racist

In a “keynote address” to incoming Yale freshmen, Spelman College President Beverly Daniel Tatum (whom we’ve heard from before, here and here) told the assembled freshmen, deans, faculty, and “ethnic counselors” that

Racism is a system of advantage based on race, a combination of racial prejudice and social power. Because they benefit from this arrangement, almost all white Americans — but not their black peers — can fairly be called racist.

Well, we do want to be fair. (HatTip to reader Jian Li)

Say What? (41)

  1. Brad September 6, 2007 at 11:52 am | | Reply

    Beverly Daniel Tatum is an imbecile. That is not what the word racism means, except to her and her racist ilk. The absurdity continues.

    BTW She is personally responsible for the fact that Spelman College pumps out unprepared, uneducated, hate-filled graduates. Spelman is not even at the level of most community colleges.

  2. Shouting Thomas September 6, 2007 at 12:27 pm | | Reply

    Tatum’s words are, quite simply, a rational for racial revenge, a call to racial violence.

    We have a serious problem in that educators are telling young people that racial revenge is justified.

    Tatum, in short, is a racist… and a very dangerous one.

  3. K September 6, 2007 at 3:48 pm | | Reply

    Brad sizes her up right. And we have heard from her before.

    This is just an example of changing words to support your ideas.

    You might expect her to be clever. And she is. Notice she says ‘almost all’ not ‘all white Americans.’

    So you can be a white American and not a racist. If pass inspection by the self appointed (or should that be annointed?).

    And you won’t.

  4. b September 6, 2007 at 5:06 pm | | Reply

    brad, shoutingthomas, k,

    You seem to be under the impression that there is some inherent right to be liked in this world. Why does it matter what this woman thinks about white people? She has a right to opine in any way she chooses, just as you have a right to do likewise.

    Brad writes, “She is personally responsible for the fact that Spelman College pumps out unprepared, uneducated, hate-filled graduates”. I suppose your linking together the idea that if you are unprepared, and uneducated then this naturally makes you hate-filled. Ok fine. As a matter of fact I am all for the proliferation of angry outraged people. You get nothing accomplished any other way.

    Whats really sad about her statement is that once again we have someone giving a damn about individuals being racist. Who cares. If she really wanted to make a statement she would stress the need for systemic change not only in the broader society but within black/”minority” ranks as well.

  5. Shouting Thomas September 6, 2007 at 6:29 pm | | Reply

    It doesn’t matter what this woman thinks of white people. I’m not concerned with hurt feelings.

    What does matter is that she is telling young blacks that the cause of their problems, and the determinant of their success in this world, is the deliberate malice of white people.

    This is a poisonous message to send young people, particularly when they are entering a world of limitless opportunity.

    The damage Tatum does to whites is bad enough. If you want evidence of this damage, take a look at the Duke lacrosse rape hoax. She is legitimizing racist revenge. The damage she does to her own black students is catastrophic. She is giving them an excuse for failure.

  6. Shouting Thomas September 6, 2007 at 6:38 pm | | Reply

    Not incidently, Professor KC Johnson’s book on the Duke lacross rape hoax, “Until Proven Innocent,” now stands at #28 on Amazon.

    So, b, in the abstract I understand what you are saying. Sticks and stones don’t break our bones.

    What you are seeing in the overwhelming success of Professor Johnson’s book is a wave of anger at the open fanning of racist hatred against white men. That anger also extends to 50 years of quotas designed to punish white, heterosexual men.

    Tatum has the right to be a raving racist. No doubt about that. But, I think that just about everybody has had enough. Perhaps, we are about to see a broad societal rejection of the racist hate campaign against white men. It’s about time.

  7. Darren September 6, 2007 at 7:49 pm | | Reply

    Wow.

    And a commenter here thinks her comments are no big deal.

    Again, wow.

  8. ACF September 6, 2007 at 7:57 pm | | Reply

    “It seems to me Yale students don’t have the tools and vocabulary to speak about race or gender or class in [such] a way that we would even be able to have a conversation.”

    Right, so only after being indoctrinated with a properly “framed” vocabulary can otherwise dumb students truly have a “conversation.”

    These people are bumbling idiots and should go read 1984 or Animal Farm. Oh, wait, they already have and that’s where they got their game plan.

    So, strike that. Instead, Yale (and other schools) should require pre-college summer reading of those two books to enhance students’ crap detectors in preparation for a four-year bombardment of this type of indoctrination.

  9. mikem September 7, 2007 at 12:34 am | | Reply

    “She has a right to opine in any way she chooses, just as you have a right to do likewise.”

    What a laugh. She *should* have no more right to make such statements than any white, Asian or Hispanic college president has the right to say that all blacks are lazy or criminal. But her job is secure because her statement is now the consensus among those charged with ensuring that all races are treated with respect (snort) in our school systems.

    I’ve tried to guess what b’s game is here. b shows up, announces quickly that racial discrimination, public and private, should be allowed by any race against any other race. Cobra expresses his respect for his point of view, and so on.

    My guess is that he believes, as Cobra has opined, that those opposed to racial preferences really are just KKK types in nicer clothing. Thusly he expects to get some mouthbreathing racist reaction from some fellow racists. The big game?? My guess (again) is to waste space on an anti-discrimination website.

    It says something that pro-preference types need to hunt and mine for racist comments from anti-preference types while the reverse can be found among mission statements and spoken by the “civil rights” leaders and community leaders of the pro preference movement.

  10. Cobra September 7, 2007 at 12:48 am | | Reply

    President George W. Bush writes:

    >>>”The United States will make no concessions to terrorist demands and strike no deals with them. We make no distinction between terrorists and those who knowingly harbor or provide aid to them.”

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss3.html

    Spelman President Beverly Daniel Tatum writes:

    >>>”Racism is a system of advantage based on race, a combination of racial prejudice and social power. Because they benefit from this arrangement, almost all white Americans — but not their black peers — can fairly be called racist.”

    America has and still indesputably maintains the WMPS (which, by its very NAME is INARGUABLY racist in nature) and since the vast majority of those who support it were and continue to be white, why should President Tatum’s powers of “distinction” on racism be any more forgiving than that of President Bush on terror?

    Hey, I can’t truly recall ANY of my anti-affirmative action type friends here posting ANYTHING that would lead one to believe that they’d feel “comfortable” in an America where whites were NOT the majority, and white males were NOT the dominant, wealth and power controlling social group.

    If I’m in error in this assessment, please Brad, ACF, Stephen, Darren, K… Post something that proves me wrong.

    Now, if one believes that racism in America is not as severe a threat as terrorism, please compare the amount of people killed in America over race vs. the amount killed via international terrorism historically.

    b writes:

    >>>”As a matter of fact I am all for the proliferation of angry outraged people. You get nothing accomplished any other way.”

    How do you think Hate Radio and Fox News gets ratings? LOL

    K writes:

    >>>”You might expect her to be clever. And she is. Notice she says ‘almost all’ not ‘all white Americans.’”

    Well, I guess that means that “clever language” isn’t limited to Center for Individual Rights lawyers and MCRI petition writers, huh?

    –Cobra

  11. mikem September 7, 2007 at 3:16 am | | Reply

    “WMPS (which, by its very NAME is INARGUABLY racist in nature)”

    This is ignorant on a few levels, son. First off, unless you are merely repeating Tatum’s “only whites are racist” racial slur, it is obvious (inarguably) that all race limited power structures are racist. That includes the Congressional Black Caucus, the Black Associations of…, and so on. Those are actual self descriptions made by black powerholders. Conversely, YOU choose a description for OTHERS that you deliberately make racially and gender exclusive and then pronounce that it is racist. Wow, way to go!

    Secondly, the white male portion of the power structure, as a whole, has operated to bring equality to all. The results, the changes in laws, the anti-discrimination statutes, the unconstitutional racial and gender quotas and so on that have been in force for now a third generation, all have resulted in benefits to blacks and women at the expense of white males. How much of the black power structure can claim the same? How much of the female power structure can claim the same?

    It is time to bring back respect for the individual over the group and to toss aside, finally, the arguments of those who benefit from racial hatred. (Tatum is a perfect example.) You can recognize them instantly. They argue that color and gender should be the most important determinent in handing out the benefits of society. They actually argue (and the loudest are our children’s teachers) that people should be seen, not as individuals, but as skin colors and racial groups. That is so hateful and so depressing that it is a wonder that children grow up at all. I wouldn’t want to live in the world their teachers wish for.

  12. Ian September 7, 2007 at 5:19 am | | Reply

    1. As John has pointed out so many times, it seems like the goal of many blacks intellectuals seems to be equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity. Anything less than equality of outcome seems to be framed as an act of aggression.

    2. My own personal experience is that black Americans have much more average levels of racism (defined as rigid preconceived notions about other ethnic groups and as hostility towards other ethnic groups) than white Americans. It’s interesting that this woman excuses that her people’s tangible “racist” sins away in the name of what bugs her, which is different levels of political and economic power.

    3. I’ve been thinking more and more how the rhetoric on this subject talks about “power” as if it were an abstract entity just floating there in the environment, and whites just happened to grab and horde it. This ignores the fact that whites created Yale, created the US government and military and corporate structure. Of course whites have more “power” in these spheres – they are (were) *their* spheres.

    4. I wonder why does this woman and her views have the pulpit in public life that they do? Why do those in power (and the execs at Yale definitely have power) want to propagate her message to incoming freshpeoples? Why is this woman not just raving to herself at home? Looking over history, it seems like the biggest perceived enemy of the upper classes is always the middle classes, not the lowest classes. It’s like those in power are siccing Beverly Daniel Tatum and her shaming castigating message on tomorrow’s possible rising stars, to have them know their place, and feel too guilty to challenge those currently in power.

  13. Shouting Thomas September 7, 2007 at 7:57 am | | Reply

    “America has and still indesputably maintains the WMPS…”

    Translation: White men succeed at a much higher rate than black men. Yes, they do. This is not accomplished through a conspiracy. Black men can succeed, too. What’s needed is a return to responsible fathering, a dedication to education, sobriety, etc.

    Since the tragic failure of so many black men is not caused by the success of white men, I cannot wave a magic wand and transfer the success of white men to black men. What you fantasize about, Cobra, is impossible. Only black men can change the habits and attitudes that cause so many to fail in school, father illegitimate children and land in prison.

    Whether or not I’m comfortable with something is not going to improve the status of black men.

    It’s up to you, Cobra. You’ve got to do something… and I don’t mean continue to fester in scapegoating and the desire for revenge. You are a victim of the vicious, crazy message that this Tatum woman delivers. There are so many like her. Cobra, no educator in the white community is giving white kids an excuse for failure. No educator in the Asian community is giving Asian kids an excuse for failure.

    If the WMPS is determined that no others succeed, why do I know an entire extended family of Filipinos, all recent immigrants, who are succeeding in American? Every adult is in the medical field, and earning a six figure income.

    Those Filipinos express the same bewilderment that I express that so many blacks are wallowing in the self-pity, scapegoating and self-destructive habits. In fact, they are a thousand times more blunt in expressing their contempt for the black community’s bad habits and disrespect for education.

  14. Cobra September 7, 2007 at 10:37 am | | Reply

    Mikem writes:

    >>>”This is ignorant on a few levels, son. First off, unless you are merely repeating Tatum’s “only whites are racist” racial slur, it is obvious (inarguably) that all race limited power structures are racist.”

    Sometimes, Mikey, I truly believe that you only post here to respond to me, whether the comments make sense or not.

    Read back to yourself what I wrote, and what you replied:

    Cobra writes:

    >>>”WMPS (which, by its very NAME is INARGUABLY racist in nature)”

    Mikem writes:

    >>>”First off, unless you are merely repeating Tatum’s “only whites are racist” racial slur, it is obvious (inarguably) that all race limited power structures are racist.”

    You see, you didn’t refute my statement. You actually AGREE with my definition.

    Exactly how does that make me “ignorant?”

    Mikem writes:

    >>>” That includes the Congressional Black Caucus, the Black Associations of…, and so on. Those are actual self descriptions made by black powerholders. Conversely, YOU choose a description for OTHERS that you deliberately make racially and gender exclusive and then pronounce that it is racist. Wow, way to go!”

    Let’s examine this statement.

    >>>”The Congressional Black Caucus was formed in 1969 when the 13 black members of the U.S. House of Representatives joined together to strengthen their efforts to address the legislative concerns of black and minority citizens. African-American representatives had increased in number from six in 1966 to nine, following the 1969 elections. Those members believed that a black caucus in Congress, speaking with a single voice, would provide political influence and visibility far beyond their numbers…

    …Today, there are 43 members of the Congressional Black Caucus representing many of the largest and most populated urban centers in the country, together with some of the most expansive and rural congressional districts in the nation. These members, now as in the past, have been called upon to work as advocates for America’s varied constituent interests–developing an ever-expanding CBC legislative agenda — as well as addressing the concerns of their own particular districts.

    The visions and goals of the original 13 members, “to promote the public welfare through legislation designed to meet the needs of millions of neglected citizens,” have been reaffirmed through the legislative and political successes of the Caucus. The CBC has been involved in legislative initiatives ranging from full employment to welfare reform, South African apartheid and international human rights, from minority business development to expanded educational opportunities. Most noteworthy is the CBC alternative budget which the Caucus has produced continually for over 16 years. Historically, the CBC alternative budget policies depart significantly from administration budget recommendations as the Caucus seeks to preserve a national commitment to fair treatment for urban and rural America, the elderly, students, small businessmen and women, middle and low income wage earners, the economically disadvantaged and a new world order.”

    http://www.thecongressionalblackcaucus.com/

    OK, Mikey–out of 535 member of the US Congress, you have ONE Black Senator and 42 Black House Members, TWO of whom are non-voting members. By MATH, that’s a 8.03 percent of Congress.

    8.03 percent is NOT a majority, Mikey. 8.03 percent can’t pass any laws, fillibuster or control which legislation gets an up or down vote.

    They can highlight and call attention to many heretofore ignored issues, but their actual “power” in Congress is severely limited.

    Mikem writes:

    >>>”Secondly, the white male portion of the power structure, as a whole, has operated to bring equality to all.”

    That’s just crazy talk, Mikey. You’re at least admitting that the WMPS exist, but its existance is the very ANTITHESIS of “equality for all.”

    Stephen writes:

    >>>”Perhaps, we are about to see a broad societal rejection of the racist hate campaign against white men.”

    Just some FYI …there’s an organization out in Washington state that some of you might find interesting:

    The Coalition of Anti-Racist Whites (CARW)

    >>>”CARW is a group of white people in the Seattle area working to undo institutional racism and white privilege through education and organizing in white communities and active support of people of color-led organizations. We support the self-determination of people of color, honor their leadership and are held accountable to people of color-led organizations.

    CARW Points of Unity

    1. We understand that as white people we live in a racist society and have been taught to be racist.

    2. We understand that white people have institutional power in the United States.

    3. We understand that racism is race prejudice backed with institutional power.

    4. We understand that we have directly benefited from white skin privilege and have taken part directly and indirectly in perpetuating white supremacy and systematic racism.

    5. We are committed to acknowledging racism and taking the required steps to undo racism on an individual, cultural and institutional level.

    6. We are committed to honoring the leadership of people of color and to being held accountable to them.

    7. We are committed to exploring what it means to be white in a society where white people hold institutional power.

    8. We are committed to organizing in an anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-homophobic, anti-classist, anti-ageist and anti-ableist way.”

    http://www.carw.org/

    Their next meeting is:

    September 2007 CARW Monthly Meeting:

    Wednesday, September 19th, 6:30-9:00pm at Cascade People’s Center (309 Pontius Ave. N.)

    I didn’t read whether refreshments would be served or not. :)

    –Cobra

  15. b September 7, 2007 at 10:54 am | | Reply

    ShoutingThomas writes, “Not incidently, Professor KC Johnson’s book on the Duke lacross rape hoax, “Until Proven Innocent,” now stands at #28 on Amazon”.

    Get back to me when it tops the latest Harry Potter book.

    MikeM, “What a laugh. She *should* have no more right to make such statements than any white, Asian or Hispanic college president has the right to say that all blacks are lazy or criminal. But her job is secure because her statement is now the consensus among those charged with ensuring that all races are treated with respect (snort) in our school systems”.

    If its not true why get your panties all in a bunch mike.

    MikeM states, “I’ve tried to guess what b’s game is here. b shows up, announces quickly that racial discrimination, public and private, should be allowed by any race against any other race. Cobra expresses his respect for his point of view, and so on.

    My guess is that he believes, as Cobra has opined, that those opposed to racial preferences really are just KKK types in nicer clothing. Thusly he expects to get some mouthbreathing racist reaction from some fellow racists. The big game?? My guess (again) is to waste space on an anti-discrimination website”.

    Mike your a constant source of pleasure in my life. Watching you constantly miss the mark is truly amazing. Just for your edification Mike I’ll state again that I am against Affirmative Action. Perhaps you can tell me where I can pick up one of those nifty white robes. I wonder if you have to wear underware under them?

    Its unfortunate that some anti-AA types think that once the policy is eradicated somehow this will change how people see the world. Black people are not incorrect to say that there is injustice in this counrty. Unfortunately for the last 60 years or so black people have concerned themselves with the question of racism and white people. This question requires one to have illusions of granduer about human nature. I am under no illusions of granduer about anyone, I don’t care about changing someones beliefs. It would be best for blacks to not give a flip about who’s a racist and who isnt. Blacks must focus on systemic change which is ultimately economic. Blacks must put their house in order first so the larger issues of the day can be dealt with.

    I’m opposed to AA because its offers a false since of accomplishment where there really is none. We dont need anymore characters in the middle class. We need to have the whole lot lifted.

  16. Brad September 7, 2007 at 1:29 pm | | Reply

    “CARW is a group of white people in the Seattle area working to undo institutional racism …”

    Your point?

    The fact that self-deluded, pathetic individuals would form an organization is no surprise, after all, the same pathology gives us the KKK. The fact that a rabid, hate-filled, rent-seeking individual like you would find them to be fellow travelers in fantasy land is also no surprise.

    “…anti-affirmative action type …”

    I am not a “type.” I am a person. Your inability to view other people as individuals is a clear sign of a deep, narcissistic pathology. One that you share with the products of arrested development at CARW and the imbecilic president of Spelman.

  17. mikem September 7, 2007 at 1:41 pm | | Reply

    “You see, you didn’t refute my statement. You actually AGREE with my definition.

    Exactly how does that make me “ignorant?”

    Sigh.

    It is ignorant because you have postulated a self fulfilling description (one count) and do not realize it (a second count). You postulate a structure that is “white males only” and then triumphantly declare that it is inarguably racist. Well, duh. How can it be otherwise when you have stipulated it as racially exclusive. Double duh.

    If I can help you out here, what you want to argue (to make any sense at all) is how the black power structure (or any race/gender classification you like) compares to other power structures.

    Take the CBC, as you wish. By definition (inarguably, you said) it is racist. In practice it is racist, excluding a non black delegate who represented majority black voters. You can certainly argue that the CBC has been a positive force FOR BLACKS by magnifying their power beyond mere numbers. You can even argue that history made the CBC palatable, despite its inarguably racist self definition. I agree with that, but it is still racist and should be cast aside as soon as possible. I say that because this recently increased drive to exclude blacks from charges of racism is laughably counterintuitive. Tatum is a great example. You couldn’t ask for a worse example of “blacks can’t be racists” than that ignorant woman.

    Here’s a second example of you just not understanding the circle you have created for yourself to run in: “You’re at least admitting that the WMPS exist, but its existence is the very ANTITHESIS of “equality for all.”

    You just don’t get it. There is a “power structure” for any racial or gender (and others) classification, so of course a “WMPS” exists. Blacks too. Women too. We could argue the definition of a power structure, but I’m guessing from your remarks that would also include a “whites only” Tatum style self exclusion. So why bother.

  18. eddy September 7, 2007 at 2:24 pm | | Reply

    It seems most people have the issue of who possesses a ‘privilege’ backwards. If universities admit whites and Asians with higher GPAs and test scores, aren’t they being admitted due to merit rather than their race? Whereas blacks being admitted with lower GPAs and test scores can reasonably be said to be admitted not through their merit but on account of their skin color. Doesn’t this suggest we are operating in an atmosphere of ‘black privilege’ and not ‘white privilege’?

    Black self-interest groups are presumptively valid while white self-interest groups are presumptively illegitimate. That’s ‘black privilege’ and not ‘white privilege’ at work.

    That disproportionate group success is baldly attributed to conspiracies rather than honest efforts is evidence of ‘black privilege’. If we truly operated from a position of ‘white privilege’, white success would be presumed legitimately earned rather than attributed to invisible, invidous, and systemic corruption.

    The white and Asian ‘privilege’ that racial arsonists speak of is nothing more than the just rewards for effort and diligence rather than for skin color. Blacks are wholeheartedly invited to join this party, despite the risk of cultural scorn for “acting white”.

  19. Dom September 7, 2007 at 5:27 pm | | Reply

    Are these acts of racism?

    1. In 1995, Al Sharpton said he would not allow a white man to open a store in Harlem. A man in his audience entered the store and killed 7 people, most of them white. Sharpton’s privilege is such that he was never held complicit for these murders, and he is still often sought as a speaker at political events.

    2. In 1991 Sharpton told a crowd that Jews were responsible for a simple auto accident. The crowd turned on an bystander and beat him to death. Sharpton’s privilege again left him unaccountable. He even led a protest march after the murder.

    3. In 2005 Larry Summers made an innocent remark, one that is wholly accepted by all researchers, and was forced to resign as president of Harvard. In 2007, Beverley Tatum made an insulting remark, and nothing happened.

  20. Cobra September 7, 2007 at 6:37 pm | | Reply

    Ooh, lots of people to address.

    Let’s start with Ian.

    Ian writes:

    >>>”1. As John has pointed out so many times, it seems like the goal of many blacks intellectuals seems to be equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity. Anything less than equality of outcome seems to be framed as an act of aggression.”

    Given the design of the WMPS, do you think it’s “random chance” that white males have ascended to power in a system designed to ONLY further THEIR goals for the better part of TWO CENTURIES?

    Secondly, who do you think CONTROLLED those “opportunities” during this time? Who do you think controls it now?

    Ian writes:

    >>>”2. My own personal experience is that black Americans have much more average levels of racism (defined as rigid preconceived notions about other ethnic groups and as hostility towards other ethnic groups) than white Americans.”

    Ian, given American History and its treatment of African-Americans, and present day America, where housing segregation, racial profiling, redlining, hiring discrimination, wage gaps, health care gaps and voter disenfranchisement (you are aware of the Bush Administration’s connections with voter caging, false felon purges, etc?)are the rules and NOT exceptions…WHY ON EARTH would you expect black people like me to NOT have “preconceived notions” or “hostility” towards the WMPS and those who BENEFIT from it?

    Hey, I get it. I really do. If you’re part of the white majority, it’s probably EASY to be ambivalent about minority injustice. It’s bad, but not unexpected.

    It’s pure HUBRIS, however, to expect minorities to simply shut up, smile and actually thank the WMPS for abuse and degradation.

    Ian writes:

    >>>”3. I’ve been thinking more and more how the rhetoric on this subject talks about “power” as if it were an abstract entity just floating there in the environment, and whites just happened to grab and horde it. This ignores the fact that whites created Yale, created the US government and military and corporate structure. Of course whites have more “power” in these spheres – they are (were) *their* spheres.”

    Oh yes they did. How many MILLIONS of non-whites suffered and died under the boot of oppression, genocide and slavery to create the WMPS? Is lust for power justification for attrocity?

    Ian writes:

    >>>”Looking over history, it seems like the biggest perceived enemy of the upper classes is always the middle classes, not the lowest classes.”

    What are some saying about this, Ian?

    >>>”America’s middle class is being dismantled by jobs exported to cheap-labor Third World countries. CEOs and corporations that enjoy the luxuries of America’s hard won freedom care not a tinker’s dam whether you have a job or not-or a living wage. But the American man and woman on the street–the ones with two kids, a mortgage and bills coming out of their ears–stand powerless as their jobs vanish.”

    http://www.rense.com/general60/illegalimmigrationsdestruct.htm

    >>>”There’s the rich, and then there’s everything else, in terms of the economy but also in terms of social class,” says Edward Wolff, a New York University professor and expert on the wealth gap. He likens it to the social divisions of the 1890s, adding: “If you don’t counteract the extreme inequality trends, I see some social upheaval coming. That’s my worst fear.”…

    …Homeownership is the No. 1 source of wealth-building for middle and lower classes, and the housing boom made millions of homeowners “house rich.” But over the past five years, once you account for inflation, incomes for these groups are actually down. Many low- and moderate-income families are spending home equity just to maintain their lifestyles.

    Nationwide, nearly 90% of homeowners who refinanced homes from July through September took cash out of their property — the highest level in 16 years, according to Freddie Mac.

    And while rising home prices mean rising wealth, they also mean larger mortgages. For the middle class, the ratio of debt to net worth has nearly doubled since 2001 and is now in dangerous territory.

    “The figures are astonishing,” says Wolff, the NYU professor.”

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/housing/2006-11-24-luxury-homes-usat_x.htm

    So you see, while middle and working class anti-affirmative action types are fighting hard in their “War on Minority Opportunities”, their alleged allies in the ivory towers of the WMPS are declaring war on THEM.

    b writes:

    >>>”Mike your a constant source of pleasure in my life. Watching you constantly miss the mark is truly amazing. Just for your edification Mike I’ll state again that I am against Affirmative Action. Perhaps you can tell me where I can pick up one of those nifty white robes. I wonder if you have to wear underware under them?”

    b, let me introduce you to Mikey. You see, even though you’re both on the SAME SIDE of the Affirmative Action issue, you’re still not in lock step with all of his opinions, thus he feels the need to attack you.

    With friends like these…

    Speaking of…

    Mikem writes:

    >>>”It is ignorant because you have postulated a self fulfilling description (one count) and do not realize it (a second count). You postulate a structure that is “white males only” and then triumphantly declare that it is inarguably racist. Well, duh. How can it be otherwise when you have stipulated it as racially exclusive. Double duh.

    If I can help you out here, what you want to argue (to make any sense at all) is how the black power structure (or any race/gender classification you like) compares to other power structures.”

    Racism without POWER means little. The Council of Conservative Citizens and the Mystic Knights of the Ku Klux Klan (both MCRI supporters) think that blacks are inferior. That’s the dictionary definition of “racism.” Honestly, they can gather in bingo halls and backwoods lodges and intimidate squirrels all night long if they desire. I couldn’t care less.

    When you have wealthy, anti-black think tanks designed to sponsor legislation SUPPORTED by the above mentioned groups, like the MCRI, and stoke the flames of anti-minority fervor amidst the general population to the point that these schemes actually PASS…

    That’s POWER, because then the mindset affects EVERYBODY. That’s why the WMPS is a racist construct, not because it contains the word “White,” but because it contains the word “Power.”

    eddy writes:

    >>>”If universities admit whites and Asians with higher GPAs and test scores, aren’t they being admitted due to merit rather than their race?”

    Not neccessarily. Due to space, if every applicant had perfect grades and test scores, they couldn’t ALL be accepted. There would have to be other criteria.

    And how do you explain George W. Bush going to Yale by that theory?

    eddy writes:

    >>>”Black self-interest groups are presumptively valid while white self-interest groups are presumptively illegitimate. That’s ‘black privilege’ and not ‘white privilege’ at work.”

    Oh no. The MCRI is a perfect example of a group/movement interested in promoting the interests of white males.

    And since so many whites in Michigan voted for their own self-interest, it passed. That can’t be called “illegitimate”, right?

    Eddy writes:

    >>>”If we truly operated from a position of ‘white privilege’, white success would be presumed legitimately earned rather than attributed to invisible, invidous, and systemic corruption.”

    Ummm…white success in America IS presumed to be “legitimately” earned. WHEN was the last time you read a blog post here from an anti-affirmative action type questioning the credentials of white doctors, white lawyers, white college applicants or…you get the drift.

    eddy writes:

    >>>”The white and Asian ‘privilege’ that racial arsonists speak of is nothing more than the just rewards for effort and diligence rather than for skin color. Blacks are wholeheartedly invited to join this party, despite the risk of cultural scorn for “acting white”.”

    I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and NOT construe that your statement conveys a racial stereotype that only Whites and Asians work hard, and that Blacks don’t.

    Whew! That’s a lot of chat-back for a sitting.

    –Cobra

  21. b September 7, 2007 at 7:14 pm | | Reply

    Brad,

    You need to read more and hate less. If you read more you will learn that Spelman is one of the top institutions of higher learning in the nation, and indeed the world. See US News and World Report,Black Enterprise magazine (oops, you probably don’t read). Its grads go on to top graduate and professional schools at a rate higher than nearly any other college in the nation. It appears there is someone in this dabate that is uneducated, ill-prepared, and illiterate, but it is apparently not the graduates of the illustrious institution of higher learning known as Spelman College. Look in the mirror Brad. In fact, to keep my daughter away from racist idiots like you is precisely why I sent my daughter to Spelman College in the first place, her mother’s alma mater, and I can assure you neither fit your uninformed, and hateful description of Spelman women. I would stack their brilliant credentials up against your apparently infinitesimal … your miniscule… well you get the point Brad – any day of the week.

    Later Brad, go wallow in your self pity and hatred.

  22. mikem September 7, 2007 at 7:48 pm | | Reply

    “The Council of Conservative Citizens and the Mystic Knights of the Ku Klux Klan (both MCRI supporters) think that blacks are inferior.”

    Maybe those nutballs are listening to you argue that a merit system is unjust to blacks.

    Regardless, you cite a couple of fringe groups. I watched mainstream black students at Howard University, future doctors and lawyers, applaud an invited speaker explain the need to “exterminate the white race”. Howard University, a cesspool of ignorance.

    It’s no wonder you argue that only whites are racist.

  23. leo cruz September 7, 2007 at 9:36 pm | | Reply

    Cobra says, ” OK, Mikey–out of 535 member of the US Congress, you have ONE Black Senator and 42 Black House Members, TWO of whom are non-voting members. By MATH, that’s a 8.03 percent of Congress.

    8.03 percent is NOT a majority, Mikey. 8.03 percent can’t pass any laws, fillibuster or control which legislation gets an up or down vote.

    They can highlight and call attention to many heretofore ignored issues, but their actual “power” in Congress is severely limited. ”

    Asians now make up 21% of the freshman class of medical schools, there a re now more Asians in the freshman classes of law schools than blacks, a third of the freshman classes of dental schools is Asian. Should Asians be 8% of Congress to produce that kind of academic achievement Cobra, you should be ashamed of yourself. Neither one has a relationship with the other.

  24. Cobra September 7, 2007 at 11:05 pm | | Reply

    Mikem writes:

    >>>”Maybe those nutballs are listening to you argue that a merit system is unjust to blacks.”

    Where is this “meritocracy” again? I KNOW you’re not talking about America, right?

    –Cobra

  25. mikem September 7, 2007 at 11:53 pm | | Reply

    Here we go again. Let me guess. Since the system is not always perfect, it should be OK to discriminate by race.

    Way to go, son. Any humiliation for the cause, eh?

  26. b September 8, 2007 at 8:58 am | | Reply

    “Brad,

    You need to read more and hate less. If you read more you will learn that Spelman is one of the top institutions of higher learning in the nation, and indeed the world. See US News and World Report,Black Enterprise magazine (oops, you probably don’t read). Its grads go on to top graduate and professional schools at a rate higher than nearly any other college in the nation. It appears there is someone in this dabate that is uneducated, ill-prepared, and illiterate, but it is apparently not the graduates of the illustrious institution of higher learning known as Spelman College. Look in the mirror Brad. In fact, to keep my daughter away from racist idiots like you is precisely why I sent my daughter to Spelman College in the first place, her mother’s alma mater, and I can assure you neither fit your uninformed, and hateful description of Spelman women. I would stack their brilliant credentials up against your apparently infinitesimal … your miniscule… well you get the point Brad – any day of the week.

    Later Brad, go wallow in your self pity and hatred”

    Someone has decided to use my screen name here to post their own comment. A comment which I would never make in the first place, because

    (1) I don’t have a children.

    (2) I am not in the buisness of praising any institution.

    (3) I have already given Brad, the fraudulent commenters target, my two cents.

    (4) U.S News and World Report nor Black Enterprise magazine are capable of accurately rating a college/university.

    The person who wrote this wants to stifle free and open debate.

    A pox on your house.

  27. Alex Bensky September 8, 2007 at 10:36 am | | Reply

    Well, this is just another attempt to redefine “racism” so people like her can impose rules on other people without having to follow them herself. Nothing new.

    What does interest me is this: I live in Detroit, a city 85% black, in which blacks have been in power for over thirty years. Would Ms. Tatum agree that insofar as it concerns Detroiters iI cannot be a racist but she can? If not, why not?

  28. mikem September 8, 2007 at 3:59 pm | | Reply

    “8.03 percent is NOT a majority, Mikey. 8.03 percent can’t pass any laws, fillibuster or control which legislation gets an up or down vote.”

    You children are just playing games. I’ll assume that instead of the alternative: that you are dense.

    But if you can’t understand the difference between degrees of power and the simple existence of power then the alternative is indeed correct.

    But to be clear, you would argue that power only exists when it is in the majority. Therefore there is no male component in the power structure in America, where males are the minority. Correct?

  29. Cobra September 8, 2007 at 4:58 pm | | Reply

    leo cruz writes:

    >>>”Should Asians be 8% of Congress to produce that kind of academic achievement Cobra, you should be ashamed of yourself. Neither one has a relationship with the other.”

    Huh??? Where did “academic achievement” come into this discussion?

    Dom writes:

    >>>”2. In 1991 Sharpton told a crowd that Jews were responsible for a simple auto accident. The crowd turned on an bystander and beat him to death. Sharpton’s privilege again left him unaccountable. He even led a protest march after the murder.”

    You’re not going to get away with re-writing and “whitewashing” history on Discriminations, Dom. At least not as long as I’m allowed to post here.

    From Michael Kamber in the Village Voice:

    >>>”The powder keg exploded outside of 1681 President Street, a sooty redbrick building set back from the street. It was here, on the evening of August 19, 1991, that a station wagon ran a red light, caroming off another car and onto the sidewalk where seven-year-old Gavin Cato, the son of Guyanese immigrants, was fixing the chain on his bicycle. Cato was dragged under the car; his cousin Angela pinned against a window grate. The station wagon was part of Lubavitcher leader Rebbe Menachem Schneerson’s motorcade. As a large crowd gathered, the uninjured driver, Yosef Lifsh, was whisked away by the Hatzolah, a Jewish ambulance service, while Gavin Cato lay trapped under the car.

    Later, it would be revealed that a police officer, worried for the driver’s safety, had ordered Lisef’s removal.

    None of this mattered on the warm August evening. Word quickly spread through the crowd that the Jew was being treated while the Black boy was left to die.

    Within hours of Cato’s death, Yankel Rosenbaum, a yeshiva student from Australia, was pulled from his car and stabbed.

    For four days the violence continued, as Blacks rampaged through the streets. “Get the Jews out!” was their rallying cry. Shots were fired, Jews chased down and

    beaten. Utica Gold Exchange, N.Y. Chicken, Sneaker King, and other stores were looted. The Reverend Al Sharpton and activist Sonny Carson organized rallies.”

    http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0203,kamber,31532,1.html

    >>>”Eyewitnesses have given various reports of the car’s speed, from 25 miles per hour to 65. Some witnesses claimed the vehicle sped through the red light and that the driver smelled of alcohol. Lifsh, who fled to Israel before charges could be filed, was later found not to have been issued an American driver’s license. What is not denied is the fact that as the car crossed the intersection, it was hit by another car, causing it to veer out of control and run over Gavin.”

    http://www.answers.com/topic/crown-heights-riot

    Dom, the FACTS indicate that Yankel Rosenbaum was stabbed within THREE HOURS of the traffic incident, and DAYS before the first rally by the Reverend Al Sharpton.

    Can you please explain to myself and the readers, how the Reverend Al Sharpton is somehow responsible for the death of Yankel Rosenbaum when he wasn’t even there yet?

    Can you tell me of other “simple auto accidents” that not only result in a child fatality and serious injury of a second child, but have the added bonus of a driver responsible, not licensed to drive in America, fleeing to a foreign country that has no extradition agreements, or subjection to US Civil Law?

    Nobody deserved to die on August 19, 1991 in Crown Heights, NY, Dom. Don’t add pain to that tragic evening with false theories and conjecture.

    Mikem writes:

    >>>”You children are just playing games. I’ll assume that instead of the alternative: that you are dense.”

    Who’s the more dense, Mikey? The allegedly dense person, or the one who keeps asking the allegedly dense person questions hoping for a different response?

    But anyway…

    Mikem writes:

    >>>”But if you can’t understand the difference between degrees of power and the simple existence of power then the alternative is indeed correct.”

    You should take your own statement at face value.

    You used a terrible example by selecting the Congressional Black Caucus. As a whole, they are not necessarily “powerful” as far as a political bloc in the day to day operations of Congress. They were ineffective after the Gore v. Bush decision, where even though they CORRECTLY brought attention to the serious problem of black voter disenfranchisement in the 2000 Election in Florida, yet did not have the backing of a US Senator to actually do anything about it:

    >>>”GORE: Is there objection to the certificate just counted? Hearing none, the chair now hands to the tellers the certificate of the electors for president and vice president of the state of Florida and they will read the certificate and will count and make a list of the votes cast by that state.

    REP. CHAKA FATTAH (D), PENNSYLVANIA: This is the one we’ve all been waiting for. We the undersigned, duly elected and serving electors for president and vice president hereby certify that we have this day met in the executive offices of the capitol at Tallahassee, Florida, and cast our votes for president of the United States and our votes for vice president of the United States, in that the results are as follows: Those receiving votes for president of the United States and the number of such votes were George W. Bush, 25; those receiving votes for vice president of the United States and the number of such votes were Dick Cheney, and the number is 25, done at Tallahassee, the capitol, this 18th day of December, 2000. Signed by the pertinent electors and duly attested. Mr. President the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Florida seems to be regular and in form and authentic and appears therefore and — therefrom that George W. Bush of state of Texas received 25 votes for president and Dick Cheney of the state of Wyoming received 25 votes for vice president.

    GORE: Is there objection?

    REP. ALCEE HASTINGS (D), FLORIDA: Mr. President, I object to the certificate from Florida.

    GORE: The — the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Hastings, will present his objection. Is the gentleman’s objection in writing and signed by a member of the House of Representatives and by a senator?

    HASTINGS: Mr. President, and I take great pride in calling you that, I must object because of the overwhelming evidence of official misconduct, deliberate fraud and an attempt to repress…

    (CROSSTALK)

    GORE: The chair — the chair must remind members that under Section 18 of Title 3, United States Code, no debate is allowed in the joint session.

    HASTINGS: Thank you, Mr. President. To answer your question, Mr. President, the objection is in writing; signed by a number of members of the House of representatives, but not by a member of the Senate. Thank you, Mr. President.

    GORE: The chair thanks the gentleman from Florida for his courtesy. Since the present objection lacks the signature of a senator, accordingly, the objection may not be received. …”

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0101/06/se.05.html

    And it went on, Mikey…from Caroline Meek, (D) FL, Corrine Brown (D) FL, Shelia Jackson Lee (D) Texas, and the objection was signed by every member of the CBC to no avail. There was certainly HONOR in their actions, but no real POWER.

    A better example would’ve been to cite what happened as a result of the 2006 Mid Term elections, where INDIVIDUAL Black Congressmen like Rep. John Conyers (D) MI and Rep. Charlie Rangel (D) NY gained powerful positions as Chairmen on the Judiciary and Ways and Means Committees respectively.

    It still wouldn’t be sufficient to rebuff my statements, because…they are Individuals in powerful positions temporarily, and not a centuries old Structure of Power, which is the WMPS.

    –Cobra

  30. mikem September 8, 2007 at 7:23 pm | | Reply

    This is so typical. All this dancing around by you just to avoid admitting that blacks have group power within America. And with that the always present racist principle among preference supporters that if it has “white male” in its description (and even if you defined it) then it should be presented as a great conspiracy of white male supremecists.

    It’s no wonder that anti-Semitism is admired within the black community, something that Jessie Jackson and Al “Jew Killer” Sharpton took full advantage of.

  31. Brad September 8, 2007 at 8:06 pm | | Reply

    Thanks for the clarification b. It was clear that the comment was posted by a depraved individual (which doesn’t describe you, no matter how much I may disagree with you), and it is nice to know that the person is also a fraud. That is, in fact, somewhat instructive, as so much of the pro-racism argument is clearly fraudulent. Spelman is not a top tier university by any estimation; it only receives mediocre rankings in a subcategory of USNWP lists (LA schools), which excludes R-1 universities, and the Black Enterprise article concerned schools that were good fits for black kids, not “world class” colleges. If the commenter actually has a daughter, he probably sent her there because of an inherited limited mental capacity.

  32. Ian September 8, 2007 at 9:46 pm | | Reply

    A reply to you Cobra:

    > Ian writes:

    >

    > >>>”1. As John has pointed out so many times, it seems like the

    > goal of many blacks intellectuals seems to be equality of outcome,

    > not equality of opportunity. Anything less than equality of outcome

    > seems to be framed as an act of aggression.”

    >

    > Given the design of the WMPS, do you think it’s “random chance”

    > that white males have ascended to power in a system designed to

    > ONLY further THEIR goals for the better part of TWO CENTURIES?

    You are wrong. What you call the “WMPS” created the thirteenth amendment, the fifteenth amendment, hate crime laws to protect minorities, revised all sorts of cultural activities from white norms (from the casts of TV shows to literary analysis) to include minorities, and, for all practical purposes, created what amount to quotas to include African Americans (among others) in many (if not most) spheres of public life. What sacrifices towards mutual peaceful coexistence have AfAms equivalently made? I am not aware of any, unless you count the basics (i.e. usually obeying laws and usually showing up for a job).

    > Secondly, who do you think CONTROLLED those “opportunities” during this time?

    > Who do you think controls it now?

    >

    > Ian writes:

    >

    > >>>”2. My own personal experience is that black Americans have much

    > more average levels of racism (defined as rigid preconceived notions

    > about other ethnic groups and as hostility towards other ethnic groups)

    > than white Americans.”

    >

    > Ian, given American History and its treatment of African-Americans, and

    > present day America, where housing segregation, racial profiling, redlining,

    > hiring discrimination, wage gaps, health care gaps and voter

    > disenfranchisement (you are aware of the Bush Administration’s connections

    > with voter caging, false felon purges, etc?)are the rules and NOT exceptions…

    > WHY ON EARTH would you expect black people like me to NOT have

    > “preconceived notions” or “hostility” towards the WMPS and those who

    > BENEFIT from it?

    Ever listened to black kids make fun of Asian kids, calling them prejudiced stereotyped names, or watched black kids push Asian kids around? It’s an ugly sight. And no one, not cowed white bystanders or ethnocentric black elders, seems to call black kids on it.

    Anyway, blacks’ hostility towards and stereotypes towards other ethnic groups is because of black people. I (and “we”, white people) are not your mommy. You’re adults now. You did it yourself, seems to me because you like being that way.

    > Hey, I get it. I really do. If you’re part of the white majority, it’s probably

    > EASY to be ambivalent about minority injustice. It’s bad, but not unexpected.

    >

    > It’s pure HUBRIS, however, to expect minorities to simply shut up, smile and

    > actually thank the WMPS for abuse and degradation.

    How about hoping that your people will cooperate towards a peaceful, cooperative, nonviolent America, the way, say, Japanese Americans do? Maybe just not fight about every last little thing, engage in physical intimidation wherever possible, always see the problem not the gift in what white people offer? No? Not possible?

    > Ian writes:

    >

    > >>>”3. I’ve been thinking more and more how the rhetoric on this subject

    > talks about “power” as if it were an abstract entity just floating there in the

    > environment, and whites just happened to grab and horde it. This ignores

    > the fact that whites created Yale, created the US government and military

    > and corporate structure. Of course whites have more “power” in these

    > spheres – they are (were) *their* spheres.”

    >

    > Oh yes they did. How many MILLIONS of non-whites suffered and died

    > under the boot of oppression, genocide and slavery to create the

    > WMPS? Is lust for power justification for attrocity?

    My ancestors and your ancestors went to war. Your ancestors tried to conquer and kill my ancestors. My ancestors tried to conquer and kill your ancestors. Your ancestors l-o-s-t. My ancestors w-o-n. I do not feel bad about this. In fact, to the contrary.

    > Ian writes:

    >

    > >>>”Looking over history, it seems like the biggest perceived enemy of

    > the upper classes is always the middle classes, not the lowest classes.”

    >

    > What are some saying about this, Ian?

    >

    >>>>”America’s middle class is being dismantled by jobs exported to

    > cheap-labor Third World countries. CEOs and corporations that enjoy

    > the luxuries of America’s hard won freedom care not a tinker’s dam

    > whether you have a job or not-or a living wage. But the American

    > man and woman on the street–the ones with two kids, a mortgage

    > and bills coming out of their ears–stand powerless as their jobs vanish.”

    > So you see, while middle and working class anti-affirmative action types

    > are fighting hard in their “War on Minority Opportunities”, their alleged

    > allies in the ivory towers of the WMPS are declaring war on THEM.

    Exactly. Quite so. We agree. And the “Cheap Third World labor” of the WW2 Era for manpower-short wartime industries in the North and West of the USA was Southern blacks. And the continuation of affirmative action and other quotas (as well as hate crimes laws, etc). are a continuation of the “WMPS”’s wage-lowering, strike breaking, anti-white-middle-class efforts, using blacks as a “strikebreaker”. The Bush administration filed on behalf of the U of Michigan Law Schools’ affirmative action program …

  33. Ian September 8, 2007 at 9:55 pm | | Reply

    > Ian, given American History and its treatment of African-Americans, and

    > present day America, where housing segregation, racial profiling, redlining,

    > hiring discrimination, wage gaps, health care gaps and voter

    > disenfranchisement (you are aware of the Bush Administration’s connections

    > with voter caging, false felon purges, etc?)are the rules and NOT exceptions…

    > WHY ON EARTH would you expect black people like me to NOT have

    > “preconceived notions” or “hostility” towards the WMPS and those who

    > BENEFIT from it?

    Also : if you are that upset with your experience within the white system, I suggest that you create your own corporations, housing complexes, health care systems, political parties, and municipalities, and make them more to your liking. We’re not your f–king mommies, here to change our world, everything in the nation our ancestors built, so that it can try to meet your preferences (although lord knows enough guilt-soaked modern whites would like to try).

  34. Cobra September 9, 2007 at 12:21 pm | | Reply

    Ian writes:

    >>>”My ancestors and your ancestors went to war. Your ancestors tried to conquer and kill my ancestors. My ancestors tried to conquer and kill your ancestors. Your ancestors l-o-s-t. My ancestors w-o-n. I do not feel bad about this. In fact, to the contrary.”

    Who are “your ancestors?” Who are “my ancestors?” Do you realize what your endorsement of the WMPS would mean?

    Did “your ancestors” declare war on ALL non-white groups that live in America today? Did “your ancestors” declare war on WOMEN of all races and ethnicities, since they aren’t officially members of the WMPS?

    Ian writes:

    >>>”You are wrong. What you call the “WMPS” created the thirteenth amendment, the fifteenth amendment, hate crime laws to protect minorities, revised all sorts of cultural activities from white norms (from the casts of TV shows to literary analysis) to include minorities, and, for all practical purposes, created what amount to quotas to include African Americans (among others) in many (if not most) spheres of public life. What sacrifices towards mutual peaceful coexistence have AfAms equivalently made? I am not aware of any, unless you count the basics (i.e. usually obeying laws and usually showing up for a job).”

    Ummm…hello? You can’t say “your ancestors” went to war with non-whites, and since there is currently detant between the races and ethnicities in America, that non-whites have made “no sacrifices” for peaceful co-existance. If African-Americans (again, the focus group of anti-affirmative action types) were to follow the “attack and conquer” policy you gleefully endorse, we would be in the state of INSURGENCY in America.

    Is that your desire, Ian?

    Mikem writes:

    >>>”It’s no wonder that anti-Semitism is admired within the black community, something that Jessie Jackson and Al “Jew Killer” Sharpton took full advantage of.”

    Are you saying that you’re unaware of anti-semitism among white supremacist groups? Do you need some help in that regard? I could post some links for you.

    Also, are you saying that all Jews in the world are “white?” Do you need some help in that regard? I could post some links for you there, as well.

    –Cobra

  35. b September 9, 2007 at 1:48 pm | | Reply

    Brad writes, ” That is, in fact, somewhatinstructive, as so much of the pro-racism argument is clearly fraudulent”.

    Im unclear as to what pro-racism argument your citing here. Everything short of a campaign of violence directed at a group of people based on their race is fair play to me. I think this whole racism argument has been turned on its head. The races need not like each other, only respect each other. The various races need not integrate themselves.

    While you may be correct to state that, “Spelman is not a top tier university by any estimation; it only receives mediocre rankings in a subcategory of USNWP lists (LA schools), which excludes R-1 universities, and the Black Enterprise article concerned schools that were good fits for black kids, not “world class” colleges”, Black kids don’t need to trade one mediocre education for another. There is nothing minority kids learn about themselves at these so called prestigious universities except to hate who they are. It would seem to me that you and yours should stick to institutions that celebrate your history and heritage and we should embrace schools that celebrate our history and heritage. I like the idea of history as conflict, you build your bombs and we will build our bombs and we will engage as we always have.

    So Brad while you say that anyone who attends an HBCU has an “inherited limited mental capacity”, perhaps they will find just enough capacity to continue building weapons to agitate against injustice.

  36. mikem September 9, 2007 at 1:57 pm | | Reply

    Thank you very much. Nothing better illustrates the double standard and low self regard that racial preferences result in than your citing anti-Semitism among white supremecists.

    The glaring fact that sticks out from Cobra’s analogy (and he failed to recognize) is that “my” anti-Semitics are considered ignorant, low brow and pathetic losers by “my” people. “His” anti-Semitics are considered the very cream of the crop (indeed are leaders) within “his” community. That is a sad and damning indictment.

    “Also, are you saying that all Jews in the world are “white?”

    LOL… No, I don’t. Are you going to reassure everyone that Sharpton, Jackson and their supporters only hate white Jews? You might win a Nobel Prize… meet with Jimmy Carter.

  37. Dom September 9, 2007 at 5:08 pm | | Reply

    Mikem: “This is ignorant on a few levels, son.” Why do you keep using that word, “son”?

    Cobra: This is from the article that you cite:

    “How do I feel about the court ruling?” asks Rabbi Praeger, a small elderly man with an appropriately long gray beard. “I don’t feel at all. It’s a legal issue. Lemrick Nelson is guilty, I know it, and we will let the courts deal with it.” As for the Black community, “you can’t blame an entire community,” he says. “You have to find the individual responsible. Like Al Sharpton. He was out there inciting the people. Al Sharpton was busing people in to Crown Heights.”

    Also, from Wikipedia: “Sharpton has been seen by some commentators as inflaming tensions with remarks such as “If the Jews want to get it on, tell them to pin their yarmulkes back and come over to my house”.

    He said this after Rosenbaum was beaten to death. And he is eagerly sought as a speaker at black colleges and democratic conventions.

  38. Ian September 9, 2007 at 9:39 pm | | Reply

    Cobra asked:

    > Who are “your ancestors?”

    The historical peoples of Northern Europe – in my specific case, Scotland, Germany, Ireland, Norway, and England.

    > Who are “my ancestors?”

    If my understanding is correct that you are African American, then I’m gonna go with the Bantu people of West Africa.

    > Do you realize what your endorsement of the WMPS would mean?

    I do not endorse what you call the WMPS. And I do not endorse your concept of the WMPS.

    > Did “your ancestors” declare war on ALL non-white groups that live in America today?

    It is my impression that, before the advent of modern civilization, all ethnic groups were pretty much at war with each other much of the time. And the more genetically different another human was, the more they were a “them”, to be conquered, enslaved, robbed, etc. The introduction of relatively peaceful cooperation between people of different races and ethnic groups has been a relatively recent development, that has arrived with the development of “civilization”.

    > Did “your ancestors” declare war on WOMEN of all races and ethnicities,

    > since they aren’t officially members of the WMPS?

    According to the Justice Department, African American males engage in an order of magnitude more male-on-female domestic violence and rape than do European American males. Looks to me like black men are more at war with women than white men are.

    > Ummm…hello? You can’t say “your ancestors” went to war with non-whites,

    Again, it is my understanding that much of the historical world, the world in which white-on-black slavery first occurred, was quite a different context than the one we live in now. It was a world with a state of constant warfare between everyone. Arabs coming down over the Sahara took more black slaves as the Europeans did on the coast. Europe was constantly being attacked and invaded, by Turks from the Southeast, Arabs from across the Mediterranean, Mongols from the East. Different states, groups, tribes, towns, etc in Europe were at war with each other, different states, groups, tribes, towns, etc in Africa were at war with each other, different states, groups, tribes, towns, etc in Asia were at war with each other. The whole concept of “war”, much less “interracial conflict”, meant quite different things back then.

    > and since there is currently detant between the races and ethnicities

    > in America, that non-whites have made “no sacrifices” for peaceful

    > co-existance.

    I didn’t say “non-whites”. I said blacks, i.e. African Americans. And it is not that I think that blacks have not made “no sacrifices” towards peaceful cooperation. It is my perspective simply that blacks have made a fraction of the sacrifices that whites have already made.

    My guess is that, in my lifetime, we will see the crumbling of affirmative action and other quotas in America. As people of European ancestry become the minority in America, they/we will develop more of a group consciousness (currently, blacks and latins will jump into a fight to protect a co-ethnic, but whites won’t), and we will tire of being the good and gracious host who pours tea for everyone, offering up spots in the universities that our ancestors founded to people of other races with lower SAT scores out of feelings of guilt. We’ll see how it all shakes out.

    > If African-Americans (again, the focus group of anti-affirmative action types)

    > were to follow the “attack and conquer” policy you gleefully endorse, we

    > would be in the state of INSURGENCY in America.

    I endorse the attack and conquerings of my ancestors. It was a violent world they lived in, and, as I said, they won. Good for them. I do not however endorse “attack and conquer” as a program for the modern world. I’d like to think that we’ve evolved beyond that way of relating.

    I do not see that underclass black Americans have, however. What I see around me is that much of black America *is* in a state of open insurgency. The only reason why it is not more open and head-on is because the police and the military have the guns and helicopters. As Fred Reed wrote, “I once interviewed a ranking Vice Lord in the Cook Country Jail. Why, I asked, did blacks kill each other so much? ‘They’d rather kill whites,’ he answered, ‘but they know they’d lose.’”

    What I see however, is an insurgency whenever blacks can get away with it. It’s my impression that the high rate of black-on-white property crime is seen as an insurgency, a righteous righting of past wrongs, by many of its participants. I’ve read that many of the folks who were there at Watts 1965, Detroit 1967, and Los Angeles 1992 called them “rebellions”, not “riots”. Hip hoppers describe their music calling white folks “devils” as “resistance music”. Every time a black guy on the street stares down a white guy, or bumps his shoulder, it’s an insurgency. Nope, I’d say the détente seems largely one sided to me.

  39. willowglen September 10, 2007 at 8:03 am | | Reply

    I am interested, above all else, in distilling the objective of President Tatum in making these remarks. And about the only thing that makes sense is that of maintaining a level of white guilt sufficient to foreclose real debate on affirmative action and other programs that benefit blacks and other identified victim groups. Because after all if whites are all “racist”, then it is axiomatic they have no moral authority to disagree in debate. This is a shame, because in an increasingly pluralistic society the benefit programs are at least deserving of a cost/benefit analysis. It is hard to escape the conclusion that debate is being foreclosed, or walled off, because individuals like Tatum intuitively know that engaging in a cost/benefit analysis may be an exercise that in many cases is dismal to their interests. Of course that is just the impression that is given off but why else would someone putatively speaking on behalf of those afflicted by racism condemn by stereotypical generalization an entire group of people? Is this not the extant question, rather than the name calling that some above have descended to?

  40. Cobra September 14, 2007 at 5:58 pm | | Reply

    Ian writes:

    >>>”I endorse the attack and conquerings of my ancestors. It was a violent world they lived in, and, as I said, they won. Good for them. I do not however endorse “attack and conquer” as a program for the modern world. I’d like to think that we’ve evolved beyond that way of relating.”

    Do as I say, not as I do, huh?

    Typical.

    I wouldn’t apply for a job with the Bush Administration with that attitude, however.

    Ian writes:

    >>>”I do not see that underclass black Americans have, however. What I see around me is that much of black America *is* in a state of open insurgency. The only reason why it is not more open and head-on is because the police and the military have the guns and helicopters. As Fred Reed wrote, “I once interviewed a ranking Vice Lord in the Cook Country Jail. Why, I asked, did blacks kill each other so much? ‘They’d rather kill whites,’ he answered, ‘but they know they’d lose.’”

    You don’t get it, do you? Martin Luther King, oft misquoted and misrepresented on this site was America’s Ghandi–social change through NON-VIOLENCE.

    Perhaps you need a refresher course on the vicious attacks by White law enforcement and White Citizens on the peaceful Civil Rights marchers led by King and other Black ministers.

    I doubt it would help, of course. Apparently, given your posts, you seem to believe ficticious Black violence in rap music is unpardonable, whereas authentic White violence is not only condoned, but encouraged.

    I won’t even try to re-argue the white crime/black crime dynamic AGAIN here on Discriminations. Believe whatever nonsensical stereotype you wish. You’re only proving Professor Tatum’s points.

    Willowglen writes:

    >>>”I am interested, above all else, in distilling the objective of President Tatum in making these remarks. And about the only thing that makes sense is that of maintaining a level of white guilt sufficient to foreclose real debate on affirmative action and other programs that benefit blacks and other identified victim groups.”

    Well, if there are “victims”, logic dictates that there must be “perpetrators.”

    You can look at the post above you and see a white male, anti-affirmative action type claim:

    “…What I see around me is that much of black America *is* in a state of open insurgency…”

    He’s not alone on Discriminations and other circles. The creation of the black “boogeyman” needed to perpetuate the WMPS is a technique that has been used throughout American History.

    “Blacks are less intelligent…”

    AAA-Type Translation:

    –Therefore, they don’t DESERVE to be in the same schools as Whites, and they can’t possibly be as qualified as a White person.

    “Blacks are prone to violence and more dangerous–”

    AAA-Type Translation:

    –Therefore segregation in schools and housing is JUSTIFIED, and if it’s unconstitutional, simply use DE-FACTO segregation.

    This is not meant to discourage you, Willowglen, from engaging in important discussions on these matters. Just know that there are many players on your team that aren’t motivated by any sense of altruism towards non-whites.

    –Cobra

  41. A Princeton “Diversity” Parody December 17, 2012 at 4:21 pm |

    [...] is because, as President Tatum told Yale freshmen, deans, faculty, and “ethnic counselors” in a 2007 keynote address, Racism is a system of advantage based on race, a combination of racial prejudice and social power. [...]

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