Discriminations

isn't BJU persona non-grata because of its policies of segregation, rather than just affirmative action?

Actually, no. BJU lost its tax exemption because of its policy -- which it claimed was religiously mandated (it is a religious school) -- against interracial dancing. The complaint against it did not claim that BJU excluded blacks because it did not actually bar their entrance.

Of course, the Kamehameha schools are segregated, and are trying to remain so. They exclude whites, Asians, Hispanics, etc.

"Actually, no. BJU lost its tax exemption because of its policy -- which it claimed was religiously mandated (it is a religious school) -- against interracial dancing. The complaint against it did not claim that BJU excluded blacks because it did not actually bar their entrance."

That's what I mean by segregation: race mixing is banned.

My guess on the Gates scholarships is that they do not actually make you prove the ethnic that you claim on the application.

However, KSBE actually had people providing family trees and birth certificates to prove the necessary "Hawaiian" heritage. The same thing happen in the Rice decision. The Office of Hawaiian Affairs had a "blood quanta" requirement.

actus:
That's what I mean by segregation: race mixing is banned.

Alas, that's not what "segregation" means. A "segregated" school is not one with a policy against interracial dating; it is one that excludes students of certain races. Before Brown and the civil rights legislation of the 1960s, southern schools were "segregated" because the states required white students to attend all white schools and black students to attend all black schools. You can stretch the meaning of segregated to cover schools like BJU -- that have almost no blacks, that have discriminatory policies, but that do not exclude blacks -- if you want to, but equating "segregation" with dating policy is a bit much, even for you.

Is the school privately or publicly funded? If public funds are used then the discrimination should end. If privately funded then it's really none of my business. I would sure hate for the Feds to tell me how I had to spend my money.

PB

Paul,

The government tell you everyday that you cannot cosndier race in business trasnactions. Racial clauses in contracts such as real estate deals are illegal. you cannot put up a "whites only" sign on your business.

The KSBE are based upon a will executed by the State of Hawaii and whose trustees are appointed by the Chief Justice of the Hawaii Supreme Court. Thus, the question should be, why should KSBE be allowed to follow the racist provisions in a contract when that has beeen settled for decades.

Superdestroyer,

You are saying these things are right? We should give up our rights of free association to further some anti-discrimitation goal? I say you are right if it's public money being used. However, I couldn't begin to agree when it's private money being used. Just like the Boy Scouts can exclude women and gays, a private school can do the same. I'm sure you have heard of all girls or all boys schools. That issue has been settled since the Bill of Rights was written.

PB

Paul,

Sorry to tell you but you are wrong. You as an individual can choose with whom you associate but when it comes to commerce, you are not allowed to discriminate. All girls schools have been given an exemption. But try to establish an all white schools and the full weight of the law will flatten you. Look up the law of fair housing, public accommadation, and civil rights laws before you start to quote the Bill of Rights. Besides, the constitution says that the states cannot discriminate and the only way that KSBE can discriminate against whites is with the force of the State of Hawaii helping them.

Superdestroyer,

So you are saying that I can't spend my money the way I want? If the government ever deems to tell me I can't do as I please I would take that law on in court for the next 20 years . . . and win.

How do you explain the Boy Scouts? The Indian Guides? The Cub Scouts? I know for a fact that the Supreme Court just ruled that the Boy Scouts can reject women and gays. Does this mean that their private organization is not commerce and therefore not covered by the law?

How is a privately funded, privately attended school commerce? More looney left "interpretation"?

PB

Paul,

If you do not believe me, try to advertise a car for sell to "whites only." Or trying selling your house to "whites only." You will find out how quickly the law will respond. Or try operating a hotel that refuses to rent rooms to blacks and see how quickly the "looney left" comes after you.

A private school is a public accommodation by definition. As far as the boy scouts go, the Boy Scouts successfully argued that the Boy Scounts are organized around a "belief system" that was not compatible with homosexuals. I doubt if the Supreme Court would have ruled the same if they had argued that being black was incompatible with being a Boy Scout. Now what "belief system" could the KMSE have that require the exclusion of "Haoles?"

Also, the law consistently finds that any racial clauses of a contract are moot. Thus, the racial clauses of the will that set up KSME should also be moot.

"A private school is a public accommodation by definition."

Hm. I remember reading some trivial blurb about a kid at a Catholic high school who had a pro-choice bumper sticker on his car. The principal told him he could not park his car in the church/school parking lot with that sticker on it. The kid said, what about my First Amendment rights. The principal said, you don't have to go to school here. The kid removed the sticker, and replaced it with "Question Authority", which was fine.

By your reasoning, superdestroyer, the principal should not have been able to tell the kid he could not have that sticker on his car in that lot.

Laura,

If you look up the definition of "public accommodation" is states:

Public Accommodation - Any facility, accommodation, resort or amusement which is open to, accepts or solicits the patronage of the general public, including government services.

Even public schools can control what students have printed on their T-shirts. You reference has nothing to do with a school being a legally defined "public accommodation."

You should also look at this primer in what private clubs have to do to not be considerd a "public accommodations." http://www.hftp.org/members/bottomline/backissues/2000/aprmay00/privclubs.htm

If appears to be a fairly difficult set of tests and one that almost no schools could possibly comply with. The act of soliciting applications, competing in extramural events, owning commercial properties, or accepting tuition could be enough to make a school a public accommodation.

Superdestroyer,

But a private school is not a public accomodation . . . it's private. It is, by definition, only for pacific islanders. Like Augusta National, an exclusive country club, it caters to a specific set of people and not the public. Augusta caters to Rich White Men (tm) and the school caters to pacific islanders. Surely an arguement can be made like that in court. Private > Public.

What is really depressing is that legistatures thought is was a Good Thing (tm) to tell private citizens how to spend their money.

Now, I agree with you that once the taxman coerces the tax money out of you it becomes public property and that money should not be used in discriminatory ways.

PB

BTW, the Boy Scouts argued that it was a "freedom of association" issue and that they were not a public accommodation.

This is somewhat off-topic since it has nothing to do with private schools... There is one sector in which discrimination is indefensible, in my opinion, and that is the health industry (specifically hospitals). As it stands today, hospitals on Native American reservations have the right to declare themselves as "non-white hospitals." I know a woman who was in labor, and the nearest facility was one such hospital. They turned away a woman in labor just for being white. If that was any other hospital and she was anything other than white it would have spawned a huge media frenzy.