Actually, in Cupertino, near San Jose, home of DeAnza College.
Now, take a look at the syllabus for a social science course on “Grassroots Democracy: Race, Culture and Liberation,” taught by Prof. Nicky Gonz
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Go out with a camera and take pictures of you with 10 people of different races. After you take their picture, ask each person:
Is this like a field trip to a third world country where they get to meet the natives? Should they bring trinkets to give to them? What happens if one of the natives objects to having his picture taken? Does the student get health insurance as part of the course?
Police violence is a major concern of many people living in San Jose.
No biases here. Lucky they live in a crime free area. All they have to do is get rid of the police and everything would be perfect.
Practicing Democracy for this week- due next week… go out and find at least one GREAT resource talking about YOUR racial/ethnic group.
I guess no whites take his class. Otherwise Professor Yuen might not like the resources that are used for this topic! But professor, it said that it was a white pride website.
After informing yourself on these issues, write a letter to the Governor explaining what YOU think should be done to deal with the issues of racial imbalance within the UC system.
It is just your imagination. There is no indoctrination going on here.
Be thankful Professor Yuen wasn’t teaching a course on terrorism. I hate to think what the extra credit assignment would be.
Based on the resume, one wonders why the instructor is working full time at a JC. Summa from a well respected liberal arts college. JD and PhD from Boalt. Teaching full time at a JC. Something does not fit easily. Did he pass the bar? Did he try? If no to either, why not?
BTW – week one’s assignment seems to be as stupid and below the appropriate level as the foolish ‘real world’ assignments my kids had in ninth grade ‘social studies.’ This is for college credit?
Good Lord! Given the utter lack of balance, I think we have an open and shut case of viewpoint discrimination going on in this class.
Mike,
Shouldn’t the fact that the teacher gives credence and tremendous air to BAMN be indicator enough of what is wrong with this picture? There are a number of well-respected liberals that freely admit the damage BAMN does, and their radical fringeness. I would speculate that the two facts have something to do with each other.
Actually, the syllabus’ bias is far more severe on the question of social security privatization (http://www.deanza.edu/faculty/yuen/Grassroots_Democracy/SOSC53/Handouts/save%20social%20security.htm), which although I concede is a complicated issue (I won’t go into my beliefs on it), the professor makes it very clear what side of the issue the student “democratic participation” must support.
A closer look at Yuen’s online materials, and the “pre-approved” civic activities (http://www.deanza.edu/faculty/yuen/service_learning/servicelearningfocus.htm), reveals severe problems. I notice that Ward Connerly’s group, ACRI or ACRC, didn’t make the list, even though Sacramento is only an extra 70 miles up the road from Berkeley from Cupertino. The “pre-approved” list is a littany of left-leaning (I’m being polite) organizations, with the exception of a link to both major political parties, where the Republicans are included (Yuen was smart enough to do that) but only below the Democrats, in a smaller typeface, and without the “I want YOU to be a Democratic Party activist” with you underlined in the Democratic listing. (http://www.deanza.edu/faculty/yuen/service_learning/electoral_activism_santa_clara_county.htm)
If you want to give credit for community service, then my belief is that it should be any verified community service, and there should NO PRE-APPROVAL process that blatantly steers students.
This professor is engaged in a morally bankrupt misuse of California state resources – and if the shoe were on the other political foot and the professor were steering students to religious charities, instead of Planned Parenthood (which I have no direct problem with if not taxpayer supported), the left would be boiling with separation of church and state arguments that I think they’d have some cause to be angry about.
A “Democratic Participation” course should be about participation – in fact, there’s no need to hire a professor – just give students credit for whatever participation they choose to engage in and can prove they spent the time on. Of course, if we did that, we wouldn’t be able to control students choices. It reminds of the University of Michigan’s scientific defense in its legal briefs where their psychology professor testified that she “measured” what she labelled were “democracy outcomes” in student behavior over time (after taking her “diversity” course). Of course, **her** democracy outcome was precisely what she was teaching in her classes.
Catch this short bio from one of the assisting instructors:
“I hate working in the jobs that are currently available to me so I am unemployed. I have two goals in life: to change the world in terms of global justice and/or unlock the mysteries of the universe. If I do one of those then I wouldn’t feel my life was wasted. In all, I just don’t want to live an ordinary, suburban consumerist white-collar life.”
Yes, living life in the ‘burbs doing real work has to be THE kiss of death. Far better to be living on the dole (either from the government, or parents, or who knows who/what else) than starting out in a menial job. (Does this young woman think that anyone enjoys entry level work more than “unlocking the mysteries of the universe”?)
And THIS is the sort of mind-set that will be teaching students at this school… oy.
BAMN has about as much credibility as David Duke. The fact that this college considers it an authority on this issue certainly exposes De’Anza’s agenda.
What’s next? Saddam Hussein and Kim Il Jong as visiting professors teaching a course on Human Rights? If this is the state of academia today, I feel sorry for the students who are obviously not well-served by these shenanigans…
Unlocking THE mysteries of the universe and/or (she’ll settle for OR?) GLOBAL JUSTICE.
I’d be happy unlocking just A (single) mystery of the universe (even Einstein only tapped a few) – or creating justice locally (perhaps here in my State of Michigan?), although I’ll freely admit that as some of the mysteries of the universe or local justice earned, I won’t stop going until fate so dictates. Still, I think her goals are bit out there.
Education or Indoctrination?
John Rosenberg blogs about a very interesting class offered at DeAnza College in Cupertino. The title of the course is “Grassroots Democracy: Race, Culture and Liberation.” I know what you’re thinking. Yes, it is leftist garbage.
However, the hom…
Did I miss something on this one? Apparently, an elective course (not required)called at a two-year California junior college called “Grassroots Democracy: Race, Culture and Liberation,” has raised the ire of posters here.
>>>”Go out with a camera and take pictures of you with 10 people of different races.”
What’s so shocking about this? I guess it would be a much more difficult task in a SEGREGATED community, where significant travel had to take place before you saw any racial diversity.
>>>”Name their race/ethnicity
One great thing about being their race/ethnicity
One challenge about being their race/ethnicity
After you have finished all of your interviews and photography sessions, create a small scrapbook with each picture and their statements. In the scrapbook, also include yourself and your personal statements.
Write a 200 -300 word personal journal on what they [who?] learned from the people they [ditto] interviewed. In addition, write your personal experience, good or bad with your race.”
Again, what is shocking about this type of requirement in a course entitled “Grassroots Democracy: Race, Culture and Liberation?”
Another facet of the course, from the website is the introduction:
>>>Welcome. I’m pleased that you have decided to take this class in race, culture and grassroots democracy. This class is a comparative study in social justice, in how people have historically dealt with race and racism in our society, and in how these lessons can be applied to contemporary society.
Our particular focus will be a comparative study of the historical experiences of 4 major racial/ethnic groups in this country: Asians/Asian Americans, African Americans, Latinos/Chicanos, and European Americans. The class will consist both of academic study and service learning: academic study because it is vital to have a sound theoretical framework when studying race and culture; service learning because study in “the field” gives you an opportunity directly to see real humans dealing with issues of race and racism and engaging in efforts to deal with the confused and hurtful legacy around race we will be reading about and discussing in class. The combination should give you a richer understanding that one approach alone would lack.”
http://www.deanza.edu/faculty/yuen/Grassroots_Democracy/SOSC53/Handouts/sosc53c_greensheet.htm
I recall on another thread, posters were particularly upset that a group called “Black Men @ UPenn” was proposing a study on White Racism in America. There were understandable arguments made at that time that there was too much of an emphasis placed upon one group. Here we have an ELECTIVE course where the lesson plan is clearly diversified, examining a myriad of different cultures, with the students compelled to interact with people, and not simply take in whatever reading is required.
Think about it, John. Imagine what a student in Yuen’s class could come away with if they came across a John Rosenberg as their interview subject? Or Michelle? Chetly Zarko? The course requires them to interview different races, correct? Why do posters assume that every interaction will be “liberal”? Why is there such an apparent FEAR of interaction with different groups? There is CERTAINLY a far better chance for a positive and educational experience for all parties from this class activity than from any “Affirmative Action Bake Sale” or “Illegal Alien Party” that seem to be popping up everywhere.
The BAMN issue is understandably irritating to those who are the focus of BAMN’s campaign defending Affirmative Action.
–Cobra
These articles from the Detroit Free Press (July 4, 2005) coupled with the assignment to ask strangers about their race/ethnicity and then take pictures of them interesting: http://www.freep.com/features/living/whatareyou4e_20050704.htm
http://www.freep.com/features/living/whatareyou-box4e_20050704.htm
If a stranger asked me what was a great thing about being white, I don’t know I would say. What could I say? I think I would find these questions annoying and weird.
Jennifer Gratz writes:
>>>”These articles from the Detroit Free Press (July 4, 2005) coupled with the assignment to ask strangers about their race/ethnicity and then take pictures of them interesting: http://www.freep.com/features/living/whatareyou4e_20050704.htm ”
Laura writes:
>>>”If a stranger asked me what was a great thing about being white, I don’t know I would say. What could I say? I think I would find these questions annoying and weird.”
This is what the class assignment as posted reads:
>>>”Week 1 – There’s a whole world out there…
Go out with a camera and take pictures of you with 10 people of different races. After you take their picture, ask each person:
Name their race/ethnicity
One great thing about being their race/ethnicity
One challenge about being their race/ethnicity
After you have finished all of your interviews and photography sessions, create a small scrapbook with each picture and their statements. In the scrapbook, also include yourself and your personal statements.
Write a 200 -300 word personal journal on what they [who?] learned from the people they [ditto] interviewed. In addition, write your personal experience, good or bad with your race.”
Where is the word “stranger” listed in this assignment?
DeAnza College’s “About page” lists a student body of 22,000 students, with 300 full time and over 600 part time faculty members. The list of DeAnza College clubs-
http://www.deanza.edu/clubs/clublist.html
provides a great opportunity to interact with peers from diverse cultures and ethnicities.
Since there isn’t a “strangers only” restriction on the interviews, the more interesting question seems to be how a student on that diverse a campus finds him or herself in a position where everyone he or she sees that is not their particular race a “stranger.”
IMHO, that would make that individual, a prime candidate to take Yuen’s class anyway.
–Cobra
Cobra, you just don’t get it.
The course on race shouldn’t be taught. It is an exercise in political propaganda.
The whole bag of obsessions you so ably epitomize needs to be dumped.
There are no segregated communities in the U.S., at least not in the sense of governmentally sanctioned segregation.
In short, everybody needs to find something else to do instead of obsessing about race. This obsession ceased even being interesting, I’d say, at least 15 years ago.
Employers should be released from the requirement to explain their hiring decisions to anybody. They should hire as they please, and the Cobras of this world (and the governmental bean counters) need to be completely excluded from this process and ignored. In fact, if employers choose to hire simply because they like the looks of an applicant, that should be their right.
People should be free to live where they choose and associate as they choose. Once again, the Cobras and bean counters should simply be excluded and ignored. If people want to live among their own kind, that’s nobody’s business but their own
It’s time for this farce to come to an end.
And, I’ll sign out of this discussion by answering your next post, Cobra.
Don’t care whether or not blacks are negatively impacted, or whether they are unhappy with the results. Tough.
None of my business. That’s their problem.
Cobra,
You are correct about one thing, and Jennifer and John were wrong to focus on it (although I don’t think they meant to).
The taking photos part and asking people about their race is not, a priori, biased or improper, although it certainly is sophomoric (and wierd) even for a community college.
If you read my post, the evidence of the bias in this course is ample. The Professor clearly articulates in his social security page (see my original post for link) the side the “grassroots activist” must take. The professor, although wise enough to include a Republican link, makes it clear the Democrats (his Dem membership is public record from his election race to a local board, and his Dem link says “I want YOU to be an” activist for the Dems – the Repubs don’t get that endorsement). On several other matters, he makes his bias evident — the one most offensive to Jen and the subject of this topic was his inclusion of BAMN meetings as a form of activism. Of course, the Professor’s bias extends further, but I don’t want to bore. If the student had a hypothetical encounter with one of us, as you pose, and the student even hinted at agreement with us, the grade would suffer (or worse yet, the student would be dropped from the course, a right the website says professor reserves to use at any time if a student’s behavior disrupts an “environment conducive” to learning). I’ve never known a course where the Professor has the right to drop a paying student on such tendentious grounds.
Cobra, will you reject BAMN here for us as a violent and anti-democratic force?
I got the “stranger” thing from Jennifer’s previous post.
Stranger or not, I think those questions are stupid as heck. Really, what would I say about how great it is to be white? It’s cool that I can go to a department store and not be trailed around by security guards? I’m supposed to be thrilled about that? I won’t be stopped for DWB? I mean, what?
And what would you say about how it’s great to be black, Cobra, that wouldn’t be an expressed or implied put-down of people of other races? How is this sort of thing supposed to further anything positive?
Laura, I agree that is (highly) wierd and counterproductive to the implied goal of the class, but I don’t think that alone evidences class bias outside of the teacher’s academic freedom (I looked at DeAnza’s policy, and it does contain some professorial obligationsand limits, which I think Yuen exceeds). There are so many more biased things in Yuen’s website to focus on.
Stephen writes:
>>>”Don’t care whether or not blacks are negatively impacted, or whether they are unhappy with the results. Tough.
None of my business. That’s their problem.”
Stephen, as if on cue, again provides a clear illustration why there is a NEED for classes similiar to Professor Yuen’s “Grassroots Democracy: Race, Culture and Liberation.”
Chetly Zarko writes:
>>>”If the student had a hypothetical encounter with one of us, as you pose, and the student even hinted at agreement with us, the grade would suffer (or worse yet, the student would be dropped from the course, a right the website says professor reserves to use at any time if a student’s behavior disrupts an “environment conducive” to learning).”
I don’t know if that would happen, Chetly. Here’s my take. Reading this syllabus, particularly the “Class Agreement” that must be signed before joining the class would probably discourage those who would be suspicious of the Professor’s motivations in the first place. I mean, I’m as proud a yogurt-eating tree-hugger as you’ll come across, but even I raised my eyebrows at some of the language of this agreement:
>>>”3. Emotional Content and Method; Not a Therapy:
Given the content of the class material, it should be expected that class participants will bring some emotional confusion and hurts to the studies to be undertaken. One aspect of the teaching and learning in this class is “emotional learning” in which we can “marry the head and the heart.” This part of the class is based on the theory and practice of Reevaluation Counseling. We will sometimes use these pedagogical (teaching) tools in listening partnerships, assigned theoretical readings, and during in-class presentations. Reevaluation Counseling is a process of focused listening and talking to heighten our abilities to think and act through the release of emotional tension associated with past hurts…”
http://www.deanza.edu/faculty/yuen/Grassroots_Democracy/SOSC53/Handouts/sosc53c_greensheet.htm
Could you picture Stephen and myself as “listening partners” positively “releasing the emotional tension associated with past hurts?” Engaging in “Re-evaluation counseling?”
I can’t either, but this is what the course encourages. On your other question:
Chetly Zarko writes:
>>>Cobra, will you reject BAMN here for us as a violent and anti-democratic force?”
I will say this. I strongly disagree with your group the MCRI, and your position on Affirmative Action, for reasons I’ve posted on this blog many times. That being said, I’ve seen very little evidence that BAMN is “violent”, other than some vague allegations posted by anti-affirmative action posters here. If there are some recent incidents verified by law enforcement that you could point me to, I would be interested to see them.
Race is an emotional issue in America, and you don’t need “re-evaluation counseling” to recognize its sweeping social implications. That being said, I don’t condone unprovoked violence as a tactic to change hearts and minds, because it only polarizes, engenders resentment, and foments hate.
Laura writes:
>>>And what would you say about how it’s great to be black, Cobra, that wouldn’t be an expressed or implied put-down of people of other races? How is this sort of thing supposed to further anything positive?”
I agree with you that these aren’t the most comfortable questions. But there is a balance to the questions, so you get to talk about the positive and the negative. As for me personally, I think it’s about being honest. When you’re completely honest, especially in a group situation, you may realize things that you may have taken for granted.
That’s where this “deep” language Yuen wants you to sign off on comes into play.
–Cobra
Let’s accept for a moment your conclusion that there is no evidence of BAMN violence (see nobamn.com for evidence upto 2003, run by a rather progressive gentlemen named Rob Goodspeed).
Though you “disagree strongly” with MCRI – do you see any evidence that our motives are “racist,” or not what we say they are?
I’m glad you have the sense to find some concern with the “Class Agreement.” I wasn’t concerned though – I found it down right Orwellian. I don’t know if the class style does what you envision it does – the thought that comes to mind for me would be “mutual mas****ation session.”
Since there isn’t a “strangers only” restriction on the interviews, the more interesting question seems to be how a student on that diverse a campus finds him or herself in a position where everyone he or she sees that is not their particular race a “stranger.”
IMHO, that would make that individual, a prime candidate to take Yuen’s class anyway.
“Stephen, as if on cue, again provides a clear illustration why there is a NEED for classes similiar to Professor Yuen’s “Grassroots Democracy: Race, Culture and Liberation.””
Cobra, the only need demonstrated here is your need to get over on me.
We know that you are incapable of competing against me. Every post you make on this site is an admission of that.
Yes, getting over is all you’ve got going.
“I don’t condone unprovoked violence as a tactic to change hearts and minds, because it only polarizes, engenders resentment, and foments hate.”
Cobra, you’re a person who always chooses your words very carefully, so I’m intrigued by your use of the word ‘unprovoked’ and its relation to the rest of the sentence, esp. as it’s used in response to a question regarding supposed violence in BAMN. This is off-topic of the original post, but would you mind expanding on this?
Scott,
Good catch on “unprovoked”, but of course, that would include self-defense. The problem is that self-defense doctrine requires more specific threats than mere provocation. I would like to hear Cobra’s articulation here, as well as an answer to my question about whether MCRI is “racist”. Does MCRI “provoke” violence? Does the mere expression of First Amendment beliefs contrary to one’s own constitute provocation?
I guess y’all are more distressed by the BAMN thing than I am about the questions, so I’ll leave you to it, but I’ll end my part by saying I refuse to admit that the questions are anything other than asinine. The ONLY thing I can think of that’s “great” about being white is that normally we don’t have to sit around contemplating our whiteness and wondering if we measure up, except when we are asked stupid questions like that one. Now go ahead and say black people don’t sit around contemplating their blackness, and then you will have demonstrated how asinine the question is.
Scott writes:
>>>Cobra, you’re a person who always chooses your words very carefully, so I’m intrigued by your use of the word ‘unprovoked’ and its relation to the rest of the sentence, esp. as it’s used in response to a question regarding supposed violence in BAMN. This is off-topic of the original post, but would you mind expanding on this?”
I know that my positions supporting Affirmative Action, justice for women and minorities, and liberal causes are inflammatory enough on conservative leaning blogs, so you’re correct: I try to be careful of what I say.
When I took a look at the “NOBAMN.COM” site, I saw this incident below, as the most prominent example of alleged “BAMN violence” from 2002.
>>>”What started as a peaceful Detroit school board meeting erupted into pandemonium Thursday as school security officers removed chanting protesters who were disrupting the proceedings…
While trying to restore order, officers pulled protesters from the McNair Technical Middle School auditorium, dragging them over seats and other spectators, including a pregnant woman.
“I kept saying, ‘I’m pregnant. I want to get out.’ They just jumped all over me,” LaDonna Fletcher, a teacher at Foch Middle school, said.
School security officers, who are deputized and can make arrests, arrested 13 adults and removed four girls for disrupting the meeting. Most of them were members of a group called the Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action & Integration and Fight for Equality by Any Means Necessary, commonly known as BAMN. Some of the same protesters were involved in shutting down last month’s board meeting.”
http://www.freep.com/news/locway/skul29_20020329.htm
If anything, the “deputized school security” was far more questionable in this incident, as protesters were “dragged over seats and other spectators.” If anything, the restraint shown by protesters in the face of NON-POLICE violence (clearly “provocative”) prevented a truly riotous situation rife with injuries.
Now, onto the question of unprovoked violence. Take the example of the freedom riders of the civil rights era, where peaceful, non-violent protests for racial justice were met with unprovoked acts of violence from white citizenry, including attack dogs, firehoses, tear gasings, false imprisonment, unneccessary restraints, not to mention physical beatings and assaults too numerous to document.
I believe those acts were unprovoked, and absolutely WRONG. As much as I disagree with the MCRI, I certainly don’t wish those act upon their members. I also don’t believe that the actions of BAMN to the extent that I’ve read appears anywhere in the same galaxy
as those of the primarily Southern anti-civil rights movement.
I hope this clarifies my position, Scott.
This is off-thread, so I’m hesitant to rehash my opinion of the MCRI, since I’ve done it in numerous previous threads. But Chetly posts this question to me:
>>>Though you “disagree strongly” with MCRI – do you see any evidence that our motives are “racist,” or not what we say they are?”
First of all, I think your group is misnamed. It would be far more accurate to call your group, the “Initiative to End Affirmative Action”, the “End Racial Prefrences Faction”, or the “Opposition to Minority & Women’s Initiatives Movement” because to be absolutely honest, that’s the primary focus of the activities listed on the MCRI website.
http://www.michigancivilrights.org/press_release.htm
I don’t even quibble that much with the mission statement claim of being, “non-partisan” amidst a phalanx of Republican endorsements on the “Past Quick Updates” page. Birds of a feather, I guess.
http://www.michigancivilrights.org/past.htm
I’ve said it before in more detail, but I’ll say it again briefly here. I believe the MCRI has a pro-white male agenda, because the result of your policy initiative, the elimination of Affirmative Action in Michigan, works to the undeniable ultimate benefit of white males. That’s borne out in nearly every thread on this blog discussing the deficit suffered by white males due to preferences for non-whites and women. Remove the preferences, and the deficit becomes a surplus at best, or at least a return to the pre-preference status quo, which for all intents and purposes, amounts to the same benefit.
Now, you can argue that that is a perfectly legal, and defensible argument in America. After all, there is a National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, right? I just think it would be more intellectually honest of you folks to drop the “bait and switch” nomenclature and proudly assert your goals, instead of winking and nodding.
You asked me if the motives of the MCRI are “racist,” and to be honest, I can’t read your mind, Chetly. I can read your posts, quotes and webpages and you don’t openly engage in the type of language that would raise any red flags with me on that area.
I don’t know if I can make the same statement with clarity on some of your sponsors, supporters, and benefactors however.
–Cobra
Yes, living life in the ‘burbs doing real work has to be THE kiss of death. Far better to be living on the dole (either from the government, or parents, or who knows who/what else) than starting out in a menial job. (Does this young woman think that anyone enjoys entry level work more than “unlocking the mysteries of the universe”?)
Cobra,
Your diatribe is fascinating, but I’ll let it stand without response. Needless to say, nothing you cite as evidence for a proposition fits as evidence for your statement(s).
As to BAMN and nobamn.com, I think your missing something. First, the “people” have a right to have orderly school board meetings – this means that we have laws requiring “open meetings,” requiring boards to have public comments sections of the meeting, and to allow non-disruptive participation (holding a sign is different than endlessly chanting in a confined space). The incident you describe sounds like BAMN members simply refused to stop chanting, preventing the school board from engaging in its business. I’m sorry, but it is illegal, and violent (preventing people from engaging in lawful business), to prevent a school board from proceeding, even if it is merely through ceaseless chanting — and security was within their rights and doing their duty. The pregnant woman story is unfortunate, if it occurred (and wasn’t a BAMN story or plant in advance to “complain” about security), but all the blame rests upon BAMN for the problems and resistance. I do have serious libertarian concerns anytime I hear “deputized” forces (as opposed to more professional forces) are involved – and there may have been some problems in this school event, but BAMN was the provocateur, not the deputized forces, even if they over-reacted.
I could give you at least 5 personal examples with BAMN, from as early as 1996 (where mace was deployed on a crowd in a confined space, and I believe the police were justified in its use, especially because mace is such an effective non-lethal dispersal method). I don’t enjoy the taste of mace anymore than the next guy – but the lawful activities of the hosts of the meeting proceeded thereafter.
More often than not, police lets BAMN skate because of the politics of the situation (like at the July 8, 2003 Connerly speech in Ann Arbor, I, along with about half-a-dozen media, videotaped U-M police arresting, and the illegal resistance of, a BAMN protestor who refused to be orderly — U-M never pressed charges according to a FOIA request, and the protestor was simply detained for an hour and released without paperwork — something I actually think was “police (and U-M administration) misconduct”, but of an entirely different type).
Cobra,
thanks for expanding on your statement from yesterday. Unfortunately, it didn’t do anything to clarify your position in my mind. I just asked for clarification rather than spelling out exactly what I meant in order to avoid a) a long post, b) appearing to put words in your mouth, and c) looking like I was setting you up for some kind of ‘gotcha’ moment. I’ll try to do a better job of describing what I was looking for:
You wrote, “I don’t condone unprovoked violence as a tactic to change hearts and minds, because it only polarizes, engenders resentment, and foments hate.”
I wondered about your use of ‘unprovoked’, so I tried the sentence without it. “I don’t condone violence as a tactic to change hearts and minds, because….”. Makes perfect sense, so why include ‘unprovoked’. Does that mean you condone provoked violence to change hearts and minds? What constitutes condoned violence? That’s what I wanted you to clarify. In your response, however, you brought up the freedom riders, who SUFFERED (not committed) unprovoked violence, and condemned it. So would I, and I’m sure everyone else here. But it doesn’t clarify anything. They didn’t perpetrate any violence, unprovoked or provoked, so I don’t understand your inclusion of it in your answer. It’s obvious you wouldn’t condone the unprovoked violence of the racists who perpetrated this, so that couldn’t have been what you were getting at either.
On a different matter, in your response to Chetly, you wrote “I believe the MCRI has a pro-white male agenda, because the result of your policy initiative, the elimination of Affirmative Action in Michigan, works to the undeniable ultimate benefit of white males”. But you must know that doesn’t indicate a causal relationship. The elimination of AA in Michigan also works to the undenialbe ultimate benefit of Asians. Would you say, then, that the MCRI has a pro-Asian agenda?
Sorry, that line in my last post should read, ‘what constitutes provoked violence?’, not ‘condoned’ violence.
Scott writes:
>>>what constitutes provoked violence?”
Actually, it’s self explanatory. Self defense in the face in violence and intimidation is reasonable. Take for example, Chetly’s example here:
>>”More often than not, police lets BAMN skate because of the politics of the situation (like at the July 8, 2003 Connerly speech in Ann Arbor, I, along with about half-a-dozen media, videotaped U-M police arresting, and the illegal resistance of, a BAMN protestor who refused to be orderly”
Now, if that BAMN Prostestor had physically accosted or LEGITIMATLEY threatened Chetly with greivous injury, I would be the first guy to stand up and declare he has the right to defend himself.
Now, “physically accosted” or “legitimately threatened with greivous injury” does NOT include “ceaseless chanting.”
Scott writes:
>>>The elimination of AA in Michigan also works to the undenialbe ultimate benefit of Asians. Would you say, then, that the MCRI has a pro-Asian agenda?”
I disagree with you here. Even ardent anti-affirmative action types have admitted on this blog that the gains in admissions to elite state schools (coincidently, the ONLY college admissions most here care seem to have a problem with concerning minorities)
y non-AA recipients are in the low single digits percentage wise.
Given the fact that 28 Asian-American advocacy groups SUPPORTED the U of M in the Gratz case should tell you there is far more to the story of Affirmative Action than getting a seat at State U.
http://yellowworld.org/affirmative_action/50.html
–Cobra
“Grassroots Democracy”
Yet another college indoctrination masquerading as a “course”: Grassroots Democracy: Race, Culture and Liberation. From the course content description: Our primary text for this class will be Ron Takaki’s A Different Mirror: A History of Multicultural …