I think William Kristol is on to something when he discusses Kerry’s “McCarthyite moment” and asks, “WAS JOHN KERRY born a shameless and ruthless opportunist, or did he choose to become one?”
The best response to Sen. Kerry was uttered 50 years ago by another Boston lawyer, Joseph Welch, who responded to Sen. Joseph McCarthy’s gratuitous smear of a young man in Welch’s law firm by asking famously, “Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?”
I am somewhat conflicted about the significance of the Kerry comment concerning M Cheney. Maybe it’s just me, but I question whether there is a large number of voters likely to be “turned off” of Bush/Cheney upon hearing that Cheney’s daughter is gay, and I doubt that Kerry is so stupid to calculate his comments in this regard upon a belief that they could sway many voters. Rather, I tend to see Kerry’s comments as just extremely bad (tacky?) form, i.e., trying to score a debate point by “zinging” his opponents with a kind of gotcha argument that involved dragging a Cheney family member into the matter. That Cheney’s daughter happens to be gay really has very little to do with the arguments for or against gay marriage (which, by the way, I support). I don’t, however, support John Kerry, or his seedy attempt to use M Cheney in what, to me anyway, appeared to be a cheap way to “win” a debate point that will have little significance when it comes to who people will be voting for Nov. 2.
I wish someone would ask either Kerry or Edwards where their children attended school and how “diverse” was their schools versus the corresponding public schools in the same cities. My guess is that the only African-American John Edwards kids see at school is one of the janitors.
Gays are bad like commies? I don’t get it.
The thing about Kerry’s comment that irritates me is that he said (paraphrasing) “I think if you asked Mary Cheney she would say….”
He didn’t say “Most gay people would say…” or “Gay people have told me…”. He singled out Mary Cheney and put words in her mouth. How does he know what she would say? Did he ask her? Just the few openly gay people of my aquaintance don’t necessarily agree on that issue, and wouldn’t necessarily express their thoughts for the general public if they did.
So he’s reducing gay people to a stereotype and assigning an opinion to them, to make a political point. If I were Mary Cheney, that would irritate me, regardless of whether he quoted “what I would say” accurately or not.
I think Kerry was doing a calculated slap at the GOP evangelical base, while trying to show a person who would be affected by a Constitutional Amendment proposed by Bush. Mary Cheney is the perfect choice for that strategy, though I believe Kerry would’ve been more effective had he invoked Rep. Barney Frank, and New Jersey’s Governor McGreevey in addition to Cheney.
As far as the statement itself, the only people who would have a problem with the line…”The Vice President’s daughter is a lesbian”, are people who believe that being a lesbian is “wrong.”
It’s akin to the Bush Team strategy of push-polling South Carolina citizens that John McCain had a “black baby” in the 2000 primary. Unless you come from an idealogical standing that is against such a thing, it shouldn’t make any difference.
–Cobra
‘How does he know what she would say? Did he ask her?’
He believes homosexuality isn’t a ‘choice’, that its just being who you are. therefore he thinks homosexuals answer the question that way.
“the only people who would have a problem with the line…”The Vice President’s daughter is a lesbian”, are people who believe that being a lesbian is “wrong.”
That would be the majority of Americans, half of Kerry’s own supporters and a healthy percentage of the gay population.
actus, if he thinks that all homosexuals answer the question that way, he’s wrong. People in same-sex relationships have all kinds of views on that question. Maybe most believe they were born that way, but not all. Not all straight Democrats march in lock-step on that issue either. Heck, even Elizabeth Edwards referred to Mary Cheney’s “preference” not her “orientation” when she suggested that her mother must be ashamed of her.
Cobra, do you think the only thing objectionable about Kerry’s statement is that he mentioned Mary’s sexual orientation? How about if somebody wanted to score a political point by talking about black people, and mentioned YOU by name on national TV, and explained what your views were, which he automatically knew by virtue of your being a black person, without ever asking you if those were your actual thoughts? Would you not find that irritating?
Actually, Welch objected not to a “smear” but to the perfectly true and relevant point that his associate was a member of the National Lawyers’ Guild, a notorious Communist front–which revelation did not in the least injure the reputation nor hamper the career of the young associate. Being a Communist, then and since, is far less a discredit than calling a Communist a Communist.
By contrast, Cheney having a lesbian daughter, though true, was irrelevant.
But why spoil a good story?
Cobra,
[T]he only people who would have a problem with the line . . . “The Vice President’s daughter is a lesbian”, are people who believe that being a lesbian is “wrong.”
It’s akin to the Bush Team strategy of push-polling South Carolina citizens that John McCain had a “black baby” in the 2000 primary. Unless you come from an ideological standing that is against such a thing, it shouldn’t make any difference.
Well, “akin,” yes, except that this time it was the Kerry Team pushing it, yes? It’s not that the Bush folks think their voters are bigots; it’s that the Kerry folks think the Bush voters are bigots, and repeating “Cheney” and “lesbian” often enough in the same sentence will induce at least a crucial few to sit this election out. I don’t think that will work, but now that the Guardian has launched its adopt-a-Clark-County-voter campaign, it’s no longer the lamest stratagem of 2004.
The offensive thing to me is that Kerry presumed what Cheney’s daughter would say if asked whether she had any choice in being lesbian. He could have said — should have said — that if you ask a random gay person whether s/he was gay by choice, the answer would almost always be “no.” He didn’t ask Mary Cheney; he just assumed that she would say so. I don’t know what she would say, but I don’t think Kerry knew any better than I do.
As far as I can see, a rough equivalent to the harping on Mary Cheney would be harping on a candidate’s children’s divorces. Suppose A said to B, “I think impediments to quick divorce are wrong, and I am sure your running-mate’s son would say the same.” Cool with you?
Laura,
Great point. I would never want somebody, especially somebody I consider a rival speaking as though they could read my mind, and know what my answer to a question would be. That is precisely the problem I had with Kerry’s statement.
As for the statement itself, Michelle, I don’t see where the outrage is coming from. Cheney himself had repeatedly brought up Mary Cheney’s lesbianism during the campaign. Kerry and Edward’s statements during the debates were innocuous…almost life-affirming, as opposed to the vicious attack on Mary Cheney perpetrated by Republican Senate Candidate (IL) ALAN KEYES:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5897569/
But you didn’t hear the Dick or Lynne even ADDRESS Keyes about that one.
In fact, if Lynne Cheney thinks that John Kerry is “not a good man” for openly talking about lesbianism and Mary Cheney, I wonder what she thinks of herself in light of the fact that she is the author of “Sisters”, a tale of lesbian love in the wild west.
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art19337.asp
I wonder if Pat Robertson has that one on the 700 Club Book of the Month list?
–Cobra
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